Hi guys, Couple of days ago my gearbox and clutch starting acting erratically all of the sudden. The shifts took longer with clutch slippage and when i came to a stop and was about to drive off there was a warning beep everytime i touched the throttle. If i still tried to drive off there was bad clutch slippage but it drove off. All this happened within 10 minutes maybe and was gone thereafter. I didn´t do any remarkable tough driving before where the clutch could have overheated. I didn´t smell anything or see any smoke or so. There is no stored error codes and clutch is worn 60% according to the computer. Car i at a Ferrari specialist right now for a check up and they are puzzled.
Don't always believe the clutch reading as the number can be reset with a worn clutch. If the clutch is slipping the clutch is either worn, or you may have a leak in the throw out bearing slave. Either way, you can't fix the problem until you dig into the area. Could also be the f1pump not keeping enough pressure in the system.
Clutch reading was around 62% worn according to the dealer when I bought the car last week. The dealer did another read out on Tuesday this week and it was 59% left. I then took the car to a specialist where I found out that the real clutch wear is 89,8%. Go figure...
It is easily manipulated. I never pay any attention to calculated clutch (or CCB) wear. IMO the only way to check is via the access panel underneath the gearbox.
Clutch wear reading is very inaccurate. It can jump quite a bit from one dealer to another. Most likely your issue is worn out clutch. The clutch on my 360 Spider started popping out of gear at 78% wear reading. Removed and replaced clutch and all is good again. Except my pocket was $8,200.00 lighter, and that was after 10% Ferrari Car Club discount. Hope that helps. Dan
I have a post here about my experience with clutch wear and clutch reading. Summary: Your clutch will start having issues at about 70% wear. Signs of clutch wear: Clutch popping out of gear uncommanded. Clutch starting to slip. There is no other fix Im aware of for the above anomalies except clutch replacement. F1 Clutch replacement average costs depending on what other parts needs to be replaced while the transmission is out: Independent mechanic: $6K Dealer: $9K - $11K.
From my experience if you ask five indys and five dealers about the clutch reading you will get 10 different answers.
To my knowledge, the only value that you can fake that will affect clutch % wear calculation in a "positive" way is the "Clutch Position From New". You can't fake the "Clutch Position Closed" value, which is the one that can give you a good hint of the current clutch wear. I'm curios what peoples Clutch Position Closed values was reading at the time when the clutch needed replacement? Guess somewhere between 20 and 25 mm.
Went for a drive in my 05 F430 last evening, and my car did exactly what's described above. It had been sitting for 7 weeks, and I'm hoping it's just unhappy from that, but in 4 years and 2,400 miles, this has never happened so far. It was about a 30 minute drive / 20 miles, and only did it in the middle a couple times. Totally fine before and after. Is there hope it was just unhappy from sitting? Something else simple? Or am I doomed to replacing the clutch. I know there's lot of ambiguity about readings, but FWIW it had 43% remaining when I bought the car with 28,000 miles (still the original clutch). Now has 30,400 and I'm not an aggressive driver. Based on the history and my driving style, I really thought it would get to at least 35,000 before needing replacement. Is this how it starts? Zero slip issues before this (only replaced the potentiometers last year).
For an 05 car it’s not reasonable to have that much left on the original clutch at 28k miles. Mine was toast at 30k as mentioned above.
They found that the clutch release bearing was leaking on my 430 by some grease in the housing, they renewed the bearing and as luck would have it the grease did not coat the clutch. Have a check on any grease coming out. My clutch only had 16000 miles on it, 22% wear. Tech said to leave it alone.
Anecdotally, I think the less aggressive you drive, the more you use up your clutch. When you drive aggressively, the car shifts faster; when you drive less aggressively, it tries to be smoother, but slips the clutch a little more. The other factor is how many of the 28,000 miles you had on the car when you bought it were highway vs local driving? Driving from traffic light to traffic light, not even counting if you hit traffic, will use up the clutch more than cruising on the highway and shifting every so often to pass. FYI: I have already resigned to the fact that I will be changing the clutch every few years. I don't drive aggressively on the street, and generally like to drive local roads in the summer, which tend to have traffic lights every couple of miles. I live by the "Jersey Shore", so traffic on highways is terrible, and I can only enjoy a highway drive in the spring and fall.
did you by chance ever do a double paddle reset? Just curious. My last clutch reading was like 70% or so. One day i notice that shifts were slower, like the clutch was being open to long. Next time i went the drive the car and it wouldn't move. I checked the clutch wear and it showed like 20%. Remembering this number is calculated by measurements. it kinda made sense to me that the position had somehow been changed so far open that it was not longer engaging. I simply adjusted the pis and now the clutch shows back ay 71% worn, and now it works better than ever. engages at maybe 1500, shifts are quick and feel like they should. Not sure how the clutch decided to back up its baseline to what is was 20,000 miles ago, but it did. I think i may have tried the double paddle pull on the previous drive, or, many have said as the clutch ages, sometimes the sensor can just lose the posistion. I'm using the think car 689bt https://mythinkcar.com/?ref=qveausmo
Good to know you were at the same mileage as me now. Were you able to keep driving for a while after that happened with or without issues? Or did you get the clutch done right away... Hopefully mine's not done yet, but I'm open to the possibility. Based on the answers in this thread, the expected lifespan is all over the place. https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/longest-run-on-an-f1-clutch.579747 Very interesting. Hopefully my throwout bearing isn't suddenly leaking (that would be some bad luck!) Have read at least one story where the whole thing had to come apart just because of that. Indeed I try not to baby it too bad, but even on the gentler side hopefully I'm not blowing through the rest of its life within the past 2k miles. Most of my driving has been pretty normal, not too much stop and go, but definitely some traffic lights. Nope never done a double-paddle reset. Are you saying that could cause issues? Or it's something worth trying to possibly fix/improve a slipping clutch? I only have an Autel AP200 reader, so can't adjust things like PIS myself, but have always wondered if this is something that needs to be done periodically. During my ownership, the F1 has been a pleasure so far (other than the potentiometer replacement) so I've never felt the need to try changing the PIS. Is what happened normal for the beginnings of clutch end-of-life? It never dropped to N, just a couple oddly slow downshifts, and then the beeping when trying to drive away from a stop twice (and it barely drove forward). Then 100% perfect for the next 10 miles after that.
Went for another drive last night, and all was well except the very first coming to a stop at the beginning. As I got to the end of my street (driving in 2nd gear) the automatic 2-1 downshift sounded very hesitant and clunky. But after that, no issues slowing to red lights, as it self-shifted from 4-3-2-1 each time. Near the beginning I pulled over and did the mythical "double-paddle reset" https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/149431428/ and yes I swear it takes off a little faster from a stop after that, but not sure if it helps whatever caused the first 2-1 to be clunky (and the issues last week). I tried a handful of manual downshifts while in motion (20-40mph), and most were just fine. Maaaybe 3-2 seemed a little hesitant and slower to engage. So all in all I think it's ok for now, but still a little bothered why that very first 2-1 was still weird. Nitpicky yes but it's never done this in 4+ years. Always smooth shifting until now.
I could at least drive for an hour or so to my specialist for the clutch change. They warned me against driving too long with a worn clutch because it could mess up other stuff.
