296 VS

Good info, in line with what my dealer told me. 18 coupes and 7 aperta.

 

Picking up on this previous comment. I was at the dealership finalizing my spec. I decided to go with the rear wings in glossy carbon. They told me that option is only available if you also order the glossy carbon rear bumper. Which is actually not the rear bumper, but the entire rear panel just above the bumper. Unfortunately, I don’t like that look at all. I prefer that big panel in the paint color. So, I’m not going with either. They did confirm that the inside of the rear wings is in the normal body paint color, not black plastic that someone mentioned in a previous comment.

 

BTW, anyone going to the FCA National event in Charlotte this week. See you all there.

 

I think he is from the UK market which is quite different to the rest of the world at the moment so his concern might be valid. Your use of the term donkey did make me laugh so thank you for that

 

Excellent observation. Oil and water needs to be up to temp before load is placed on an engine. This also gives time for the rotating masses and friction points to expand properly. There's no way around this fact especially in cooler weather. Another consideration when purchasing a hybrid or used hybrid with an electric only capability.

 

The car has systems in place to protect itself. Sometimes upon start up it won’t go into electric it will just start the engine automatically. There’s 15+ years of data to examine on hybrids by large forehead people in virtually every use case.

 

They must be large dealers; mine had 4 and 2!

 

Yes, that's my worry. In any event, it will be nice to have that option. I suppose if I feel uncomfortable about it, I can stop at the church parking lot outside my neighborhood and let the ICE warm up before continuing on. That wouldn't actually add time to my trip versus what I do now, I'll just spend a few moments stationary there instead of in my garage.

As for buying pre-owned, I don't think this concern would be worse for hybrids. It could be better. I'd guess that most owners fire up their ICE cars and drive off immediately. With the hybrid, the engineers may have more flexibility to limit load on the ICE until it has a little warmth in it.

My guess is that with today's engines, this is a smaller deal than I'm imagining. But, I love my cars. Mechanical sympathy can be a powerful emotion.

 

I do think this question of spec importance is critical and plays into some of these depreciation questions (and other considerations). Ferrari has done an excellent job at dramatically focusing clients on customization and I think it does drive decision making. For example, I took my VS (coupe) allocation because I want one and believe it will be a benchmark type car to drive but also because I enjoy and appreciate the opportunity to complete a custom spec that is meaningful to me. Let’s suppose it does depreciate $150k (making up hypothetical) and it is the difference between buying new for $700k with my personal spec or buying used for $550k with a likeable but not “my” spec, I personally would pay the extra for the custom spec opportunity.

 

I believe a lot of people feel this way

 

And I would be the happy second buyer with a beautiful car- essentially unused- because expensive Ferraris aren’t driven- by most buyers. The greater the depreciation- the more likely the car will be both enjoyed and driven. The 2nd mouse gets the cheese.

 

Letting a car idle from a cold start is actually worse for the ICE. The quicker the oil comes up to operating temperature, the less the wear on the engine. Driving the car slowly, with light throttle opening and at low RPM, is better than letting it idle. That said, the difference is negligible and shouldn't be of any concern.

 

Remind me not to buy one of your pre-owned cars! Putting immediate driving loads on an ice cold engine is nuts. Anyone that's properly warmed an engine knows that. Its not even debatable.

 

These cars don't drop to normal idle immediately. They keep the revs elevated, generally until the oil temp gets to around 100° F. I always assumed that this was, in part, to help get components warmed up quickly, as you say.

I've never before heard that it's better to do this initial warmup under load. I have heard the opposite (which seems intuitive). You'd have to explain that one to me.

Once the revs drop to a normal idle, that's when I pull away. I continue to keep the revs relatively low until the oil gets to full temp.

 

Tell that to the racing teams that rev (moderately) the engines when they fire them up in order to bring them up to temperature quicker, resulting in less wear. You might want to join us in the 21st century (or even the 20th, the same principles applied then).

 

It 's simple really. The quicker the oil gets up to operating temperature, the less the wear to the engine. The quickest way to do that is to drive the car (racing teams rev them stationary, but that is just wasting fuel) up to moderate engine speeds (i.e. 3000 RPM) and small throttle openings (light load).

 

Please post the VIN numbers of your previously owned cars!

 

Why? Do you work for HMRC?

 

I don't want to own a car with an engine that was started ice cold and dumped into gear. I'm crazy like that. Had to check it wasn't April 1st when you posted that nonsense. Never seen a race team do that either.

 

I guess you haven't been to many races then. When they start their cars inside the garages they rev them using a laptop or a hand throttle device. Not too high, around 3000-4000 RPM for GT cars (much higher for Formula type cars). Anyway, you shouldn't worry about getting such a car; we live on different continents.

 

What race teams do this immediately after a cold start?

Some race cars idle at 3,000 RPM. V10 era F1 cars idled at something like 5,000 RPM. But those engines had to be pre-heated, along with the their oil and coolant. And even then, I was under the impression that when first started, they would idle for 30 seconds or so before they would start to oscillate the revs.

I get the desire to get the oil warm. But you also need to get the engine components warm.

 

All of them, after a few seconds after fire up. F1 cars indeed require warm oil, but we are not talking about such engines here.

 

There are other fluids that need to come to operating temp as well. If you idle a car until the engine is warm the transmission fluid will be relatively cold for a while as well as Shock fluid, hydraulic fluid (in older cars), brakes, brake fluid, tires, all need to come to operating temperature. This is what warm up laps are for.

Like above there are two ways to value a car at initial purchase and subsequent purchases. I favor speccing all my cars from new but I also avoid taking any advice from sales people on what options I “need” to resell my car. If I don’t want it, it’s not going on my car. It’s never hurt me and in many cases has been a benefit.

 

For race cars, the dry scavenging is not very effective at idle, no?

I always thought with our cars, you only need to let them idle until the revs drop, and then you can drive them at lower rpms until the oil and engine temps come up. Letting it sit in your garage for 20 minutes is just wasting fuel at best

 

For what it's worth, I raced for about ten years. The instructions I always got were to keep the revs slightly above idle for a minute or so after a cold start, then oscillate at low revs - while stationary - until the oil was up to about 150°. Only then, head out and do a warmup lap at moderate revs to get the oil to full temp and to warm the rest of the car, like @008 says. That first minute or so at low revs (slightly above idle) following a cold start is the same thing our cars do on their own.

That's what I do.