Customers were never a concern for Enzo, those cars somehow became the best of the best - Ferrari - fast forward Atelier TM. Ferrari 849 production over 3 years estimated 3500 units vs 282 million cars made over same period. 282 million cars of which 3500 are 849's oh the pain you must endure over a black strip that may be cured. Undertand it's a thread where people wanted to share their thoughts of design and aesthetics but TM Atelier are very good at curing all issues. I agree not a fan of black plastic but it's a small detail that can be fixed in many ways, Clear bra vinyl factory requests to paint - the factory is always adding more options as time goes on with a model in production.
I'm not sure how you interpreted my post this way. I didn't say my only complaint, but yes, the black trim is a deal breaker. I'm not going to spend $6-800k on a car that I don't like to look at. Nor will I spend $6-800k on a car that I need to wrap to hide features I dislike. There are plenty of cars that are great to drive and that I think look terrific. Including most Ferraris. So better to pass and buy another one of those.
That would be great! To my eye, it's not a small detail. My eye is drawn to it, so it dominates the design (even more so on the 12C and F80). If they'd let me paint the black trim, I would likely get a 12C and would probably want one of these. (Then I start getting into budget constraints though. )
This means fewer units sold, however profit per unit goes up dramatically. Either way, resale prices come down on newer models and past models stabilize.
Man, why would everyone want this car ??? you know there are people who don't need to buy the latest model to feel good What I'd like to know is how many owners of historic Ferraris will buy these... I'm talking about collectors who own 250 SWBs, 275s, Daytonas, 288s, F40s, F50s... that is, cars they own because they've made history, and who've been authorized to do so for a long time @roma1280 ... not those who've made their fortune in tech or Bitcoin over the past three years. In my opinion, almost none... these cars are aimed at a new clientele. I think that's the answer to your question.
That 458 looks menacing next to the SF90. It looks like its going to beat up the SF90 unless it forks over its lunch money.
Define history - Dino built a V6 and that engine was modified for F1 - took 40 year for it to be recognized and now sells at close to 1m. For decades it was a Fiat junk unworthy etc. Ferrari Speciale Aperta - 10 years later is now 2m - two years ago 1/3 the price. Why is the 458A worth 2m - XX Aperta worth 2.6m and the SP3 worth 5-6m What you fail to recognize - today Ferrari's are doing better than ever. Personally think the bold new designs make the older Ferrari's more desirable vs less desirable and so do you.
Don't confuse the cars that make history with those that fuel speculation; they are two different things! If you want to know which cars will enter history since the 2000s, there are very few ( personal opinion ): Challenge Stradale,Enzo, LAF(I'm hesitating about this one) , F12 TDF, and SP3. That s all ! I'm talking about the history of the brand, not the speculative value.
I would place the importance of the 458 above the CS all day every day. It was a far more impactful car to the future of Ferrari than the CS ever was/is. Don't get me wrong, I love the CS, but its not as revolutionary as the 458 in terms of shaping future Ferrari's nor of redefining past Ferrari's. The CS was evolutionary, but not revolutionary.
In discord. When Daniel Marin, CEO of Charles Pozzi in Paris, called LCDM to tell him that his clients wanted a track day car with which they could go to the track by road and come back without breaking their backs, Montezemolo told him we'll see what we can do (this sometimes happened live in those days, still recently). They took the 360 challenge and made the minimum changes to be able to homologate it. elsewhere, unlike the Scud, you can fit slick tires without twisting the chassis because from memory it is fitted with unibol... When the first road tests of the CS were done in Maranello at night, the police called the factory the next day to ask what this car was that had woken up the whole town and if it would last long... The origins and creation of the Strad, in my opinion, have a much greater place in history than the more technologically and mechanically advanced 458. In fact, the bespoke department paid tribute to it with the 70th anniversary livery, featuring the identical tricolor. Everyone at the factory loves this car...
I’m guessing - totally guessing. But I imagine that in the 1950’s when people wanted to buy a 250GTO it was because the car was awesome to drive. Just the experience was amazing. I don’t think they were thinking about the brand in particular and does it fit. My dad loved Ferraris because when he was amateur racing, they were the baddest things on the track - sound, performance, everything was fantastic. When he was able to afford one, he wanted the latest and greatest performing vehicle at that time. So, it was Testarossa, F40, etc. And he definitely did NOT buy them because they were iconic at the time. He always loved the newest ones out. So, I think wanting the latest and greatest is not necessarily shallow as is oft meant by the phrase here. It just means someone who loves the brand and wants the newest technology they have to offer. I can tell you that I would love to have an older Ferrari for the nostalgia and throw back grace - a 330GTC, for instance. Can’t really justify the price of a 250 California which my grand dad had and sold because they could not keep it running. But if I purchase a 330GTC some day, it will be for its beauty and elegance - not performance and every day livability. In that imaginary future, I will have time and skills to tinker with it so I can occasionally drive it. In the meantime, I’m purchasing cars that are dependable to drive and that I am able to purely enjoy driving. So, I have mostly modern cars. 812SF, Portofino, F8 (leaving soon for a 246GTS). Awaiting a C12 and Puro. Do I think they will appreciate? No. I appreciate them!
just goes to show how personal and subjective design is, because I totally disagree. If I were to stick with the lunch money/middle school analogy, the 458 looks great, like a kid that’s going out for the track team and is clearly going to make it… Might even be a star… For varsity.. but the SF90 looks like Usain Bolt in a tuxedo,
I agree, looks are subjective, especially if you know the spec sheet on the two cars. I'm not a fan of the new designs, but as Chris Harris said on his recent podcast, Ferrari isn't really designing cars for my age group anymore, they have to look at where the 30-40 crowd is as well as their biggest markets which are the Middle East and N. America. Harris predicted these new designs will be a huge hit in Dubai and other emirate states.
History is documentation - not speculation. Paints are historical, seats are historical, stripe numbers historical. The association of a road legal car is to a race car - richer the history. Race cars being the pinnacle. You mention all cars you do not own - yet you focus on history. For me - cars one owns makes it their story - creating their history to be enjoyed, however they wish
Harris is probably right, although when it comes to automobile art it should never bow to the trends and tastes of emerging markets but should set trends and educate markets on the cult of beauty. This is what Ferrari managed to do better than anyone else for decades with the models penned by Pininfarina. In recent years, with Flavio Manzoni, everything seems to be much more inconsistent and extreme, between the brilliance of models like the SP3 and the divisive futuristic language of recent models where beauty isn't the priority.
I think make the old more desirable because the new designs are uninspiring. Not because of a love for the new and now a new passion for the old. Those are two very different reasons and the second is not a good one at all.
I would still put the 458, any version, on your list, as well as the F12b, and even the FF/ Lusso because they allowed Ferrari to not only make more performance more accessible, but to actually make sensations you could only get on a race track with the prior models actually felt on the road. To me, that is quite an accomplishment. To make the point even further, even today, a lot of the basis of the new cars is based on 458. The F12 platform does not live on but some of the innovations of the FF/ Lusso still are found in the Purosangue. It’s been 16-17 years and many of these innovations are still found on today’s cars- that is impressive, and important.
246GTS - engine was modified for F1. Bought a fully restored Dino and spent 4 months working out issues. Being a grandfather I related to the car and will purchase one for each of my grandsons - looking for a second Dino. It's very easy to drive at 6'2 son 6'3 and expect even taller grand kids it is very comfortable and lots of headroom. Suggest finding the most knowledgeable mechanic - it will save you a lot of headaches and once sorted is a beautiful car to own and drive. Enjoy
Ahh the Dino. That is a beautiful car, indeed. Definitely knowing a knowledgable mechanic will be essential!
Jerry, I can only thank you for not forgetting and have mentioned the 458 Italia, F12 Berlinetta, and the FF, these three cars were indeed, along with the LaFerrari, the ones that marked one of Ferrari's golden periods, which occurred between mid-2009 and early 2013, when the four were unveiled. They are truly four exceptional cars. The 458 a beauty and an engineering marvel that would go on to redefine rear-engine Ferraris' aesthetics and performance. The F12B a car that redefined the front engine V12 and represented, in every respect, an enormous step forward and transformation compared to its predecessor, the 599 GTB. The FF, something unique and innovative that featured the company's first-ever four-wheel drive system, had four seats, and was undoubtedly the most versatile Ferrari. Finally, the LaFerrari, a masterpiece of engineering and design, that was a functional, aerodynamic-driven manifesto for future Ferraris and was named by one prestigious magazine as "the most evocative hybrid hypercar in the world." The 458 and FF were designed by Pininfarina, the LaFerrari by Flavio Manzoni, and the F12B was the result of a collaboration between the two. However, the common denominator name was Luca Cordero di Montezemolo.
