458 to 430?

I went from a 458 Italia to a 430 Scuderia. I love the Scud way way more to drive. The 458 is a very good daily with a nice thrill, but the 430 is mechanical and raw.

430 is slower. I prefer the trans as it feels more like an e-gear Murcielago or a manual trans car, which is more fun than the relatively boring dual clutch offered in the 458. The only part of the trans I don't like as much is starting off in first or on hills. You can burn up the clutch, whereas the 458 you can't.

You'll have to drive the car in manual mode on the 430 whereas the 458 you can (if you want) drive it in automatic.

 

I remember reading that many Scuderia owners jumped at the 458 when it came out based on its specs, and then regretted it because they missed the "raw" analog feeling. Since the Scud has become a little pricier now, a 2008/2009 F1 F430 with the latest 360Trev tune and a set of H&R lowering springs would be a reasonable compromise for the street. The 2008+ F430 has carbon brakes standard and has a different transmission closer to the Scuderia, and with Trev's tune, it's close from a "butt dyno" measurement, though I expect on the track with a real race timer, you would see the difference in overall track time.

With any F1 430, keep in mind you will need a clutch more often than a clutch pack in a 458, but 6 out of 5 transmissions in a 458 will need one or more very expensive repairs as they age. Originally, it was a single sensor and seal, which cost about 2x the price of a clutch kit, but now more weak points are being found with a limited number of places that can do the repair. We are only starting to see this as the cars age. Here are examples of the common repairs https://jscuderiautomotive.com/dct-gearbox-repair/

Now, if you want the perfect move from a 458 and you didn't want to kick in the extra money for a Scuderia or an OEM 6-speed gated F430. Buy an F1 and get it converted with a Dr S kit.

 

This was my experience as well, hated the 458 test drive (which felt and drove like a luxury car), was about to buy a Scuderia which drove great, much more like a sportscar....then fell in love with something even more visceral and bought that. If I could have bought two, I would have a Scuderia also.

 

So what was that more visceral car?

 

Scuderia easily if you are comparing the two....if you bring in what I purchased instead (at the same price a Scuderia was going for in 2020), it is much more visceral than a Scuderia, to the point of "it's not for everybody".

 

I should have specified, what you purchased instead

 

2005 Ford GT

 

That's quite different from any Ferrari made in the past 50 years... Love the Ford GT, but can't get into one without becoming part of the French Revolution with those Guillotine doors in my garage. I'm still trying to figure out how I'm going to get into my son's Lotus Elise with the hard top on during the winter when I need to move it, and that car doesn't threaten to cut off my head.

 

The LaFerrari has swan doors so Ferrari can get away from boring doors when they want to. The biggest issue with FGT doors is the wide door swing required for opening and closing (as they showed on Top Gear in the day). Everything else about it is magnificent though, given that one has the driving skills required to pilot a RWD 550 HP (650+ on mine) with no electronic aids....that is why so many get wrecked, lack of skills.

 

I also bet many of those who crashed may have had driving skills but lacked the sense to check the age of the tires. I love the Viper and Corvette guys who talk about spinning the wheels in 3rd gear, but never notice their tires are 10 to 15 years old.

I do love the Ford GT and loved the advertisement for the original GT40...

"Would you let your daughter marry a Ford owner?"

"The Ford GT 40 £7540. 0-60 mph: 6 secs. 1st gear: 58 mph. Top gear: 164 mph. Boot space: laughable. Petrol consumption: wicked. If you're a bit worried about your future son-in-law just ponder over the trade in value: 5 Escorts, plus 3 Cortina Estates, plus a Corsair 2000. You could become the first 9 car family in your road."

 

Post in 458 section as well to get both sides. I've had both and put about 10k miles on the F430 and about 17k on the 458. Both great cars. Note, I had the F1 transmission in the F430 and I didn't have a scuderia. The F430 feels like a prototype of the 458. I would not say F430 is more raw I would say its not as well engineered. The F1 transmission is lurchy at low speeds and prone to burn the clutch (especially in reverse). At speed it is fine. The exhaust note on the F430 is much lower and rattles windows and sounds great. 458 more of a high pitched scream which is amazing.

 

Don't forget the most important detail: The 430 doesn't have the DCT, so no bearing seal leak! Every 458 will eventually put somebody down $25-30K when the weap hole starts to drip. For that for that reason, I'd never buy one.

 

The 458 feels so refined, but maybe too refined at least for me? Every car is blazing fast now, so that’s not what gets my heart pumping. I really like the mechanical feel of my 430. Actually sold out first 430 thinking we’d get a 458, but bought another 430 instead. Besides being far less money, I like that the trans is a manual first, where the DCT is an automatic by nature. Found myself not bothering with the paddles in the 458, which made it less engaging. Have to agree it’s a big jump in tech from the 430 though. Feels very modern even today.

 

Drive a later model 430 or a Scud, they do not feel like prototype 458s, just hand built cars vs the 458 which uses more automation in the build then ever before. Ferrari changed philosophy staring in the 458 and the California to try to attract a larger customer base. Quality control did increase with the 458 and more modern assembly techniques but some of the character of an old world Italian hand built car was lost. Don’t worry Lamborghini lost that a few years before thanks to Audi so I guess it was inevitable for all these Italian car companies.

 

My F430 was a 2007. Not trying to knock it, its a great car. The build quality, especially the interior, did improve on the 458. Pretty sure the old world Italian hand built car thing died with Enzo if not before. Nothing noticeable between the F430 and 458 in that regard. I do like the physical gauges of the F430. You could also see more of the engine from the rear view mirror which was cool. The Ferrari branded flashlight in the glove compartment was also a plus.

I do agree with you on the Lambo though. I have a '23 Evo and its very non-old world if you will.

 

Diablo was the last hand built Lamborghini, they were only building 300 cars per year so they had to modernize too....but that sure created rarity.

 

So my friend has a 2014 Aventador - he has had it for 10 years now and accumulated 85K miles! Here's the shocking part - he a DIYer and is still running his original clutch!! All that driving and never had to do an engine out, regardless of what the dealer said. Intimidating to look at, but fairly easy to work on.

 

That’s amazing. I bet most of that 85k is highway miles to have a single clutch automated manual transmission last so long.

 

Drive around Boston or NY City area... puff clutch gone in 10k miles.

 

This is why I will not part with my 360. Not a 430, but I did drive a 458. It was about a 1.5 hour drive to the dealer to "test drive" the 458-- which I love the aesthetics of but the test drive... meh -- halfway back home in my 360 I forgot all about the 458. I'm betting anyone in that position driving their 430 back home would have reached the same point I did waaaaaay sooner.

 

Actually no, it's all in and around WPB. I drive mine mostly on highway but he does not. There's not even a rock chip on the bumper of that car!

I'm not sure why, but the more you drive these automated manual cars, the better they engage.

Plus the Aventador specifically has a transmission that has lightning fast gear changes. I believe that many TCU parameters are off on various cars and the dealers diagnose it as needing a clutch. Theoretically, the Aventador should burn hardly any clutch at all when driven properly, unless you constantly launch it, or back up half a mile uphill into your garage on a daily basis.

 

Trev360 is working on a 430 transmission project to shift at scud speeds. I know no other details, but that’s enough to cement that I’ll never sell mine. The “scud thud” is the most engaging feeling I’ve ever had in a car. DCT’s just don’t do that. I’ve only had PDK’s…lightning fast but I hate to say, boring. At least you can still get a manual 911