Sport Cats on 812GTS

Your GTS cats have the GPF filter with them. You'll not have GPF with aftermarket cats. You will need to tune the ECU for the free flowing cats and no GPF or the car will not run correctly, possibly limp mode.

 

This is correct, with exception of the Capristo 250 Cell cats. These have been verified to have enough catalyst density to operate fine without throwing an emissions code. Several people on this forum have these installed. The Capristo do delete the GPF as well, and have a port for the OEM GPF O2 sensor to attach.

 

This cannot be over stated. IMO.

 

That's not quite right. It's not the delete of GPF that causes issues, it's using a sport cat (or no cat) that causes emissions issues. All of the aftermarket sport cat options delete the integrated GPF that is part of the stock Cat/downpipe.

 

Just to confirm - do the Capristo 250 Cell cats delete the GPF but still have enough catalyst density to avoid throwing any codes (including GPF-related)? In other words, can they be installed without requiring tunes or OBD modules?

 

I think capristo has a gpf integrated 250 cell solution that has no CEL with a GTS. There is a member here who has had this setup for a year without any issues.

That being said, capristo vs novitec has a pretty different tone. Novitec has that very high pitch sound that capristo does not have.

 

That's interesting. Their website has the usual CEL disclaimer on the 250 Cel product page. I'll shoot them an email to confirm.

Regarding Novitec, it's worth clarifying if the Tectronic module disables the GPF regeneration cycle as well (or just simply clears the codes) and if the module leaves a trace.

 

I think Novitec also has integrated GPF (note they call it OPF)

https://www.novitecgroup.com/en/brands/ferrari/812/812-gts/

As far as I know, removing the GPF is a big problem.

(I would love to be wrong)

 

It's not clear if it's a set for cars with a GPF or it has an integrated GPF. Will find out soon.

 

I spoke to Novitec directly. There is no solution to CEL for superfast or gts. They say you need their dongle which only clears specific error codes repeatedly. As soon as device is removed, CEL is on. Not possible to pass emissions/smog and service also say they cant diagnose the car properly if CEL comes on due to these codes. Ferrari diagnostics have routines that require all codes to be evaluated. Looks like a pain in the ass.

OPF/GPF is much worse as the particule regen process can cook the cats and cause knock in engine. For that tune might be needed.

Install is 8 hours of shop time.

No idea how people live with these exhausts day to day. Youtube videos tell only part of the story.

 

Thanks, that offers some clarity. The OEM downpipes also have cats and the regen process doesn't cook them so there's some leeway there. Not sure what the specifics or configuration of the GPF / cats are but there's a way the regen works.

This leaves the Capristo 250 cel option…

 

I know I have posted on the Owner's Chat thread, but I have very recent first hand experience of this. I installed the "stage 2.5" Novitec on my GTS, that is the 100 cell sport cats (with no GPF), x-pipe and valved back boxes. Regardless of the sound (which is incredible), the only issue I have had is two CELs that have disappeared after a few minutes and they had no impact on the car, no limp mode or anything else other than the (two) lights on the dash. I have driven over 500 miles with the system. I have had the car serviced at a Ferrari dealer while still under manufacturer warranty, nothing was noted on the report. It had the Novitec OBD module installed when it was serviced that they must have removed to carry out the service, again, nothing noted. Ferrari also put the car through the annual UK road worthy test (MoT) which includes emissions tests. The car passed with flying colours. So far I have had nothing that has made the car hard to live with day to day, with the possible exception of the absolute din that is cold start that does make me cringe a bit when I'm at home (but is very cool). Talking to several Ferrari dealers they treat Novitec and Capristo differently to other non-standard exhaust systems, they are "almost" approved and they'll even supply and fit some of the parts. They see them all of the time. I have no skin in the Novitec vs Capristo argument, but the supplier I worked with that is the major supplier in the UK of both Novitec and Capristo steered me clearly towards the Novitec. I only have one regret and that's not doing it earlier.

 

Thanks for that, it's nice to see a counterpoint. It reads to me like Novitec offer two 100 cel downpipes - one for cars without a GPF and another for cars with. I suspect neither have any GPF's in them, just different parts to match the different cars.

The open questions are if either the regeneration cycles the ECU performs or the CEL warnings (which still exist, just not visible to the User) have any long-term negative effects on the engine.

P.S. You have a very understanding dealer!

 

The regen process is calibrated for 800 cell oem cats and oem particulate material. Aftermarket less dense cats and particulate filter will not behave the same way.

 

This is unfortunately not the norm. The 3 dealers I spoke to here pretty much made contrary points to everything you said.

When the car goes in for warranty service, they have to follow a very specific process or they dont get paid. That process includes checking (a) if there are any stored codes, (b) if so what are they and why they are there, (c) is the car stock or not.

Taking the car to the service for free maintenance does not raise these red flags.

Practically speaking, the dealer will not warranty a 40 hour engine rebuild due to oil leak if your car has a full aftermarket exhaust system. Also the dealers are obligated to take pictures and note everything about the car including aftermarket components. They may not say anything to you but Ferrari will know what your car had when.

There is a pretty annoying but famous Irish youtuber whose public case of Ferrari denying his warranty could be studied. If you filter the annoying youtube persona stuff, his car when new had electrical issues before him installing a novitec system (and its the same system you mention). Ferrari cannot fix the issue. Then he installs the system (big mistake) and now he has no warranty.

Ferrari is pretty nasty with this aftermarket modification stuff. I think some of their policies are pretty unusual and outrageous. Considering how much money they charge for their cars with all their known flaws, they should be more supportive of their loyal clients.

Its pretty obvious in the case of Nico with his 812 GTS, this issue has nothing to do with his Novitec system. It is 99% a grounded wire somewhere but yet Ferrari has been pretty adamant that they dont want to have anything to do with his car.

 

I think it really depends on the dealer. My dealer won't install aftermarket exhausts themselves by they do facilitate the process for customers. They will take the cars to a shop that will do the job, they will pick it up and then deliver it to the customer. They won't invoice you for this, the third party shop will, but at the end of the day you do everything through the dealer. And the dealer also gives you a "handshake agreement" that the guarantee won't be voided **as long as the car is always serviced by them**

You have a technical problem thousands of km away from your dealer? Don't even think about taking it to a different, local Ferrari dealer - ship the car directly to your original dealer, otherwise you risk the local dealer noticing you have aftermarket stuff and notifying Ferrari. But *your* dealer will not do this. They obviously prefer to sell cars. And, my friend, I can guarantee you that a HUGE amount of 812 GTS and Purosangue are being fitted with aftermarket exhausts. My dealer told me that an astonishing amount of brand new Purosangue are fitted the aftermarket exhaust even **before** they are delivered.

Also, Ferrari people are not stupid. They know the V12 is an AMAZING engine with an INCREDIBLE sound that is being crippled by the stuff they have to do to meet regulations. They obviously can't say this publicly, but they understand people can and will be disappointed and will look for solutions, and they will turn a blind eye.

Regarding Capristo vs Novitec, I only had Capristo (the 250 sports cat + xpipe) fitted on one of my cars. The sound is SO much better. Never tried Novitec, but I find contradictory statements - some say Novitec is "fuller" but Capristo has higher pitch, but other say the exact opposite, so I'm confused.

 

Did this car (with the Capristo 250 cats) happen to be a GTS and did you get any CEL's ?

 

It really does not depend on the dealer when we talk about warranty claims. What depends on the dealer and varies is some dealers make an issue out of this right of the bat when your car is in there to patch a tire or change oil (because they know Ferrari's policy) and some play nice to keep customers happy (more business). In the end, Ferrari, the company that approves your warranty claims, have the same policy in place for every dealer. If your car has a warranty claim on any of the drive terrain components, they will not diagnose it unless you revert back to stock. If you revert back to stock and they diagnose and find a problem, they may think the problem was due to exhaust and deny your claim or approve it because it had nothing to do with the exhaust. They are really difficult and will not really compromise on this. I personally find this really absurd considering how much money they charge for their cars.

With respect to GTS, GPF, and sport cats: there is ton of info on this thread https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/812-gts-exhaust-upgrade-novitec-vs-capristo-regrets.703230/page-3.

Because how few of you drive the cars and put enough miles and the fact that cars may or may not enter into GPF cycle enough times to cook the cats (OR maybe your car due to a ferrari software glitch doesnt run the cleaning cycle properly OR your tune disables the cleaning cycle - could be many things) does not mean there wont be a problem. The car runs well over 20% rich when it enters into the cleaning cycle and this absolutely cook your sport cats and if they melt enough, they can get sucked into the engine OR extremely high exhaust temperatures will overheat the engine (the car will not know how to deal with this as its not expecting it to happen).

Unless you can get ahold of Novitec or Capristo engineers (not sales people) who will show you how this works internally and prove to you its safe, everything you hear is hearsay/circumstantial evidence unless proven otherwise.

The only two ways to achieve this is to either have a particulate filter that is good enough to do its job (but then it wont sound good) OR find a tuner who is willing to risk jail time by disabling emission critical test software to disable particulate filter cycle via tune.

 

I do agree on what you say about warranty. About the cleaning cycle: do you know how ofren does it happen? After how many kms? I don’t doubt your information, but I do know many people who have fitted Novitec and Capristo exhausts to their GPF-fitted cars, and no one had serious problems. You are right that most people don’t put more that 4k km per year to their cars, which is not a lot, but taking into account GPF is mandatory since 2020, its been already a long time since these modified cars have been running. Also, I’m quite sure my dealer would have told me if this kind of problem is very likely to happen - they are one of the biggest in the world and they have hundreds (not dozens) of customers who make these kind of mods to their cars… and actually he tells me that the mods are getting more and more common simply because the stock sound of new cars keeps getting worse.

long story short: I’m sure you are right in theory, but in practice I don’t see this problem you are describing happening a lot in the wild.