Horner to Ferrari !

This goes back decades, look at Lauda, Prost etc who said similar things in those very different era's. The problem in part seems to be there is no team ethos at all and unfortunately the buck stops with the TP, its his job to get the various part of the team working coherently together. Strategy is a good example, has this really got better in the last 5 years, my view no, if anything actually worse.

My point is these problems have to lesser and greater degrees being present for decades.

 

I assume you mean Fred, although you could have meant Horner or both.

Let Fred run the Races, let Horner run car development.

 

>>>>THIS <<<<

 

So, counter to all those snarks about Horner calling around to every team, this version sounds like Ferrari are pursuing him and offering rather extraordinary accommodations as well!

 

I don’t see how Vasseur running the races would help. Strategy, tactics and racecraft have been at least as poor as the equipment.

 

SPOT ON. For too long they've rode their own coattails. How many championship drivers have they burned through since Raikkonen? Each of them brought in to restore the 'glory' at Ferrari with a championship but finding only disappointment when the reality of working there becomes clear. The average age of a F1 driver is less than 30 years old. Many of the current crop of drivers and the next upcoming generation have grown up seeing Ferrari flounder around the grid. That could make it hard to pull top talent. This board is made up of hardcore racing fans that have watched this downward spiral in real time.

The real question is - does Ferrari truly care anymore about this? It doesn't seem to be a priority. They're Ferrari. If they wanted it fixed they would fix it. At the end of the day, they're selling their cars (maybe the new odd design language will challenge sales - we'll see), the merch flies off the shelf, the stock price defies gravity. Granted the day will eventually come when that's no longer enough but in the meantime it's quickly becoming just another lifestyle brand. It's the same kind of short sightedness we see at other publicly traded companies that live quarter by quarter, and a disappointing trend to those who are true rabid fans of the brand.

 

Dude, you nailed everything wrong with this Godforsaken team.

 

The moment they brought in Fred I cringed. 1% better than Binotto...at best. The Ferrari F1 effort needs a King who answers to no one and has total control of the program. No exceptions. And they don't have to pay him an arm and a leg, just give him the freedom to do the job. That is what if will take to rebuild it from the ground up. Elkann and the other big wigs at Ferrari have to bow out and leave the King alone. Horner, in my opinion, had his nuts handed to him by Jos, and that was the beginning of his downfall. Like Lewis, Horner looks like a man whose time has come and gone. A key to rebuilding Ferrari, in my opinion, is not to try and buy your way out of the hole...but work and think your way out based on hungry ambition vs ego.

As for the King...the only guy on the ascent right now, IMO, is Laurent Mekies. Blah blah...I don't see any hope for Ferrari under Elkann and the old school. We are talking a rebuild and not a cosmetic make over, I'd think about drivers who are not at their F1 peaks. Maybe someone outside F1 like Alex Palou...see what he can do...next to Isak Hadjar. This is building a team, not buying one. All the Albons and Sainzs and other mid pack ust aren't punching above their weight. But Hadjar is. I know most here hate Russell...but he is also doing a good job. No point in chasing Piastri or Max...that's wasted money if you don't have a car that can do the job.

Again, build the team, don't buy it.

 

+1000.
Only facts.

 

No need for a UK base..
Problems are deeper than that.

 

+1 they won multiple titles without it.

 

History tells a different story, in 65 years they have only won 11 WDC. Poor return.

Deny all you like but the epicentre of F1 technology is in the UK, Barnard posssibly wasnt the best person in terms of leadership but the internal machinations within the SF management (and ego) did its very best to hinder the factory in the UK and its operations, it never had 100% control of the team, that was the problem. The Italian side and moreover PL Ferrari resisted every advancement. None of that would have happened under Enzo.

 

Micheal did and it's pretty much the only time the team was genuinely great and in proper shape in the last 50 years. Once they got rid of him what happened to the team? Well...it expired didn't it? One WDC (by the skin of their teeth) which was done on the residuals of Team Michael & co and ever since then it's been the joke of the paddock.

No Leclerc isn't to blame for technical direction of the team in the grand scheme of things, but things that are under his control (when to pit, for example) to this day he still fails on.

 

This needs to be nailed to the front door of the Ferrari F1 factory.

Wake up and smell the coffee!

 

The team went into freefall after Brawn was booted in 2006 and Todt a little later. Schumacher was an exceptional driver and the team delivered for him albeit 4 years into his reign.

 

Max took how long to win title? Its about showing progress overall. The problem with Ferrari is timelong inconsistency of results.

 

Again spot on..

 

Yes but this is the thing. Michael delivered for the team since day 1. The team quickly formed a bond of devotion around Michael. They had an excellent TD in Brawn, a designer in Byrne and someone that kept the F1 team separated from the prying eyes of the top brass....let them in just enough to make it think it was all their doing. You don't get any of this if one of these 4 cogs wasn't working together with the next.

Max is the only driver I've seen since Michael that seems to get a team around him as dedicated. The best way to get a team around you is not through politics, or being nice...it sure gets you in the door (Ask Leclerc and Vettel) but the true way to get it is through results and giving 100% every time. Yes Max's radios when things are doing wrong are more animated than we heard from Michael BUT the radio's in 90s and early 2000s where nowhere near as public as they are today, by a huge margin.

I'll try and find the video, I can't remember who answered the question, might have been Brawn...but when asked ''who really runs the team" Brawn gave the nod to Michael.

 

Yep I know that fact, in the first 5 years of entering a team

MV Torro Rosso
2015 -16 0 wins
MV / RB team
2016 1 win
2017 2 wins
2018 2 wins
2019 3 wins
2020 2 wins
2021 10 wins WDC
20 wins

Vettel Torro Rosso
2008 1 win
Vettel / RB team
2009 4 wins
2010 5 wins WDC
2011 11 wins WDC
2012 5 wins WDC
2103 13 wins WDC
39 total

Doesnt look so good now for MV!

whats your point

 

Are Ferrari becoming the Minardi of the modern era - you know, the team you love to barrack for whilst knowing they have no hope??

 

He was being generous, when Barnard was asked the same question he said he gave exactly the right technical feedback we needed to improve the car and it was designed around him and his style alone. the no2 had to adapt.

 

[QUOTE="TonyL, post: 150290625, member: 54594"]He was being generous, when Barnard was asked the same question he said he gave exactly the right technical feedback we needed to improve the car and it was designed around him and his style alone. the no2 had to adapt.[/QUOTE]
That's debatable.

But the case makes itself. Get competent people in that revolve around the best driver there is and the chance for success is much, much higher than 2 good drivers with different styles and a chaotic team. There is no direction in any way shape or form. The simplest things take years to resolve if ever. They don't follow a driver, a TP, a designer, nothing. And how could they when before something is done, they're already out of the door.

Hence what I think Ferrari should do presuming their car is once again a pile of **** in 2026.

It's the only thing that makes sense.

 

I get that Bas, the right ingredients (technical team) bakes the perfect cake (driver) unless the cook is useless (team principa)!

When Barnard met with Schumacher he asked if he could drive the previous seasons V12 car, after a few laps he was immediately faster by a long way than Berger could ever acheive, asked why he could drive it so quick, he said he liked the the way it handled in the corners, Berger didnt. The ultimate insult to Berger was that Schumacher reckoned it was way better than the Beneton he drove the year before and could have won the WDC title with it.

Barnard took that on board and developed the car for Schumacher.

 

yes. I think Michael loved that V12 especially as he could manipulate the car much more with the throttle.

 

Up to 2019, Red Bull had underpowered Renault hybrid engines, that explains a lot !!

Once Honda had their PU sorted, Red Bull could win regularly with Max.