296 GTB vs 812 SF Fiorano lap times

We have an 812SF and traded an F8 for the 296 GTS. They are completely different animals, as you know. The 296 is surprisingly smaller, less leg room (for the passenger) and noticeably lower getting in and out of. I’m sure you are aware of these things! My wife will happily ride in the 812 but not so happily in the 296.

 

Yes, much different experiences, but the 296 is quite a car. It feels much faster and though it's not a V12, it's better than the V8s of the last 10 years.

 

Well, the 812 is superfast

 

296 is much quicker 60-130. I’ve posted data here. Check my ownership experience thread

 

I really believe the Fiorano lap times (which are exclusively made by Ferrari) are "engineered" (to put the cars in the right order marketing-wise, and some times to give room for improved times for planned new versions).
An exclusive 812 Competizione is claimed to be faster than a regular 296 GTB (by one full second!), with identical peak power (but far less torque on the 812C) - personally I do not buy it; both cars are about the same weight (maybe slightly less for the 296).
Also whereas the 296 Speciale will undoubtly be faster than a regular 296 GTB AF, I doubt the difference will be two seconds (the 296 GTB AF making only half a second less than a Pista is also questionable).
Of course everybody is free to believe what they want.

 

Ferrari SIM produces the same time as the cars physically - unless you have track video tests comparisons - to lay over one another - it's just fun to see.
XX had a time on SIM it was matched on track on the second lap and called it a day - marketing.
We all know this is about marketing as is everything today.
Temps drivers weights fuel tires and not every engine from a factory is the same - racing is never the same twice.

 

Ferrari has really sandbagged the 296. It's much quicker than advertised.

 

How would you feel spending $600k+ on a supercar and it's slower than a $300k car even if you don't care about speed that much in reality? They have to fudge the data to give you some hope. Makes sense Ferrari needs to do that.

 

Gave four friends rides yesterday. I got all of them to squeal "whoa whoa whoa!" "that's enough!" "easy! easy!" just in short blasts from 20-60. It's the magnetic-coaster like rush of about 30-60 in a little over a second that scares them.

 

It’s actually exactly as advertised from my
Testing. 100-200 in 4.4 seconds and 200-250 in 4.0 or just under. But that’s really quick. The launch is obviously tire and condition dependent.

the best tires I’ve used are the new continent extreme contact. I have them in the 765 and I went from spinning at launch and flooring it to 2.7 seconds or less regularly to 60 mph. I’m going to put them on 296 in spring. My guess is the car runs 9.8-9.9 at 146-147 on the street.

 

I understand the 296 is an incredible vehicle, but what are your reasons for trading the 812 for it? I would think moving from that screaming v12 to….anything else, really, would be a step down, regardless of how technically capable the 296 is. I’m not saying you are right or wrong, just asking what is driving your decision. I am currently looking to purchase my first Ferrari and am trying to decide between just those two vehicles.

 

I've got an F12 and 296, and my response would be that they're so different that while they're both Ferraris one is clearly a GT and one is a sports car. The F12/812 is going to be a step bigger, more plush, easier to enter/exit, rides a few inches higher in terms of sightline and despite that the weight distribution on the axles is still rear-biased, the front V12 in front of you creates a completely different sensation of the handling and balance of the car.

Simply put the front V12 polar center is more in front of you (the 812 RWS modifies this artificially by speeding the turn), the F12 feels like the center of the car is at your knees. The polar center of a 296 feels more at your hips or even to your back. So the V12 dives into a turn and the sensation is that you're being pulled by this screaming dragon that is carrying you behind it, the wheels being relatively far ahead of you, while the 296's sharp, light nose feels like you're being pushed in a capsule by a maglev train.

There's no comparison in sensation of lateral grip though, the more compact 296 feels like it can hang on much longer in a tight turn. Far less roll than the F12. One downside is that once the 296 feels like it's spinning, it snaps unbelievably fast. I was surprised at the Corso Pilota skidpad exercises how hard it was to recover - we did a couple ~5 minute sessions of drifting and 180º turns (or, attempts) on a wet pad. My thought is that it's the heavy weight of the EV battery right behind the bulkhead that increases the rotational force more than you expect. I've got enough time and mileage on my F12 that I can slide and powerdrift it basically at will, and it's actually easier to push in and out of slides without leaving a racing stripe in your boxer briefs.

Lastly, the choice of seat for the V12 makes a big difference in the feel. Comfort seat or standard seat and you'll feel cozy and relaxed, racing seats firm up everything to the experience but are exhausting (to me) and can pinch your thighs after a short time.

 

Thank you so much for the detailed answer! I currently have a 750s spider and the biggest reason I am leaning towards the 812 over the 296 is exactly for the reason you mentioned - the 812 being more “GT” while the 296, I think, would be more duplicative of the 750s as a sports car.

 

Oh in that case, then you want to add an 812 with comfort seats and with Ryft or Novitec exhaust. (I have Ryft)

 

Sounds to me the 296 is a good choice. Though, I wonder how SF90 pricing compares. Once you are underway both cars accelerate in similar times, but the SF90 feels more torquey everywhere in the rev range, and 0-60 launches are out of this world. Regarding lap times, even if we suppose both cars are equal, I think most drivers would find it more pleasant to extract the time from the 296 vs the 812.

 

Hey all, great topic and discussion. I'd like to add my POV here as well:

On the lap time topic:
Fiorano is indeed a peculiar track, sometimes hard to really tell the differences given its length. Want to REALLY compare? On the Nürburgring Nordschleife, it posted a time of 7:27.48 minutes. The 296 GTB has a recorded lap of 6:58.70 minutes (according to testing by Sport Auto). I own an 812 GTS and a 296 GTS (AF) and I think they're the perfect Ferrari combo. But after driving them hard at the track and at the mountain pass, I can confirm the 296 absolutely destroys the 812.

On the GT vs sports car:
I actually think the 296 base (w/o the AF package) with comfort seats can be a really comfortable, GT-like experience. The 296 to me is the ultimate all-rounder, with even 15 miles of EV mode which is big-time in London.

On the 296 vs the SF90:
I'll take the 296 any day because I think it's more fun, lighter and prettier (my take, of course). 1000 hp feels like overkill to me. Having said this, in the UK having a 4-wheel drive could be really convenient. Check out this recent review which I think it's excellent:

On trading the 812:
I think your rationale makes a lot of sense. Once you've really enjoyed one (like you I have a lot of miles on mine), you're ready to move on. The 296 will be a completely different experience and I'm certain you'll love it.

 

Decisions like these -- 812 or 296 -- are not ones dictated by logic.

They are the province of emotion.

If the heart wants a 296, it really doesn't matter what the brain says.