296 Values and Used Market

Performance difference is massive. That's objective. Everything else is subjective I'll give you that.

 

The F8 is a small step over the 488, but the 296 is a significant step up from the F8.
Driving all three cars on road and track makes that obvious (more so on track of course, because on the road the opportunities to unleash the capabilities of the cars are rarer). So if only performance is considered, there is no contest (FWIW, I could drive back to back the 488 and F8, and 488 and 296, on the same tracks - I never had direct comparisons between the F8 and 296, but I can deduct from the different experiences).

 

I disagree, The 296 is a substantially better driving experience and is superior objectively. The car is more nimble, handles better, stops better, is faster and sounds better and importantly is just more fun. The sum of the parts creates a substantially better experience. On the other hand the F8 is still a great Ferrari.

Using your logic- one should never purchase a car as the next model should always be better. And the there’s the cost (Increasing MSRP vs heavily discounted static MSRP) and then the wait (I’m going on about 4 years for a 296GTS).

 

7-day ban and permanent thread ban for personal attack. You have been warned and banned before for such attacks, future bans may increase or become permanent.

 

I never had the chance to push these cars on track (sorry, owners lap at Ferrari event don’t count ) so I just looked up their Fiorano track record. Surprisingly, 488 and F8 are very close with F8 only edged by 0.1 second but the 296 with a major leap of 2 full seconds. It appear indeed that the 296 is a major step up over the previous platform.

 

Thanks Yin. Can I plead for leniency on his behalf since he attacked me and I never got offended and only amused

I mean I have V12s and that’s 4 more inches at the urinal vs his 458

on a serious note, it’s misplaced enthusiasm after all.

 

Porsche is a strange cult. I say that as someone who owns a 992 GT3 Touring Manual and a 992 GT3 RS. Even as a huge fan, I scratch my head at the secondary market. I’m just not sure the Porsche GT3 market can tell us anything about the 296 market. Case in point. 6 days left and this 8 year old car is already $140,000 over original MSRP (70% over).

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2018-porsche-911-gt3-touring-64/

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I suspect the 296 is even better and had its official time limited by Ferrari (Fiorano lap times are under exclusive Ferrari control) to leave room for the VS and not compete with the more exclusive 812 Competizione.
Objectively, I cannot see how the 812 Competizione could be faster - both cars are about the same weight and have the same maximum power. But the 296 is smaller (so it's more agile) and the hybrid setup provides more torque - which means actually more power when below the maximum power (most of the time actually, since to always be at peak power one would need an infinity of gear ratios).

 

I've owned a lot of 911s and have been a little surprised at the market as well. As I have been looking for a 296, I had written off all 911s as "been there, done that, for too many years," including having had a 992.1. Then I started looking at the new Turbo S; I have friends who just got allocations, and they decided to get the turbo now and a 296GTB/S in a year or two. The cars are nearly identical in performance (0-60, 205mph). However, when it comes to money, there are a lot of differences...

Maintenance--turbo will be a lot less expensive after warranty, and one could probably argue that even with Ferrari's included maintenance, cost will still be similar as the 296 won't be driven much and owners will pay out of pocket to get the fluids changed when Ferrari says it doesn't need it.

Reliability--they just don't break...I've had all five of the last generations, put a lot of miles on every one of them, and I had to replace a battery once...that's it, period.

Depreciation--yes, you can get a two year old used 296GTB with 1,200 miles on it, or for about the same price, a new turbo with no miles (and if you are lucky enough to get an allocation, you can get the exact spec you want).

Build quality--the 911 as we know, is rock-solid (I'm sure there will now be some owners who say they had problems; however, in a very small group of friends who have had a combined one dozen 911's from the current 911T to GT3s, etc., not one has had a single issue with any car. I think increasingly people who can afford these cars are valuing ease of ownership more and more, especially as most of us get past year 50. Note, I'm not saying the 296 isn't as rock solid as the 911, as I don't have any personal experience, but I do have a few data points on the 911. Similarly, the R8 that my friends and I also had, never had a single issue ever. Personally, I do have a fear of what happens if you buy a 2-year-old GTB, and a year later when its out of warranty, you either need to pay $8,000 a year for an extended or take the gamble.

This all may be taken as me being negative on the 296...I'm not. It is a much sexier beast than the 911 and you won't see 60-year-old ladies driving it like they do the 911 around me, and everyone here except a small few seem to say it is amazing to drive--I take their word for it. I've been scheduled a couple times for an extended drive on the track with the 296, but plans fell through. I've driven the F430, the 458, and the 488, and all were great extended experiences when they had their heyday, and each improved upon the previous generation, so I'm looking forward to the 296, but the value proposition is still a little challenging, although much better with $100K off MSRP these days!

 

My GTS will be for sale by Monday. $476k with AF. Ill post the link when available in the for sale section.
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We don't moderate behavior based on whether a specific user is offended. We moderate to forestall the behaviors that would cause most users to become offended. In the case of todd cloud, this is the 5th or 6th moderation action logged against him for attacking others. Particularly noteworthy are an incident where he tried to create a new account after a site ban and another incident where he called another user "a moron" and then edited his post and tried to pretend he didn't say it, while reporting the victim's post as if the victim were the offender . He's not entitled to any grace or leniency.

 

I suspect it is the Cup2/R on the 812C since the normal 296 just running on PS4. So imagining just slap on some Cup2/R on the 296…this car is going to be easily in the SF90 time territory

 

im sorry but there isn’t a universe that exists where I’d opt for a turbo S over a Ferrari for the same price.

I’ve had dealers asking me for a 50k adm on the .2 turbo s. As expensive as a 296 for less performance. No thanks.

a turbo s is a decent everyday supercar but frankly it’s too boring and clinical

 

ADM games on 911 by the Porsche dealers is slowly ruining a perfect daily sports car…very sad . 296 is the rational choice.

 

I think thats the definition of a market…some would take the 296 over the new Turbo S, and vice versa. If you have built a long relationship with your SA, you can get them at MSRP, or through a broker for $35ADM. As for performance, the new Turbo S is the same as the 296GTB, so no real difference there. As for sex appeal…well, I think we all agree on that!!’

 

THIS! The 911 Turbo S has always been clinical- without emotion (relatively). And they were always superior in performance. No more.

The 296 is pre-owned bargain

 

the turbo s that weighs 3900lb with 100hp less is the same performance? Ok

 

Not meaning to get anyone upset here, but while the Tirbo S has a kerb weight of about 450 lbs more, it is the same or quicker than the 296GTB. The turbo S clocks in at 2.4 seconds, 0-60, and the 296 at 2.9 seconds, at least according to the manufacturers. Some sources claim 2.4 seconds for the GTB, so one could make the argument that best case, they are probably the same despite the weight difference, or the turbo S is faster 0-60.

You bring up a good point about the weight, and on paper, it would seem the 296 should have a very clear advantage; however, the way the Porsche puts the power down with all wheel drive more than makes up for the weight deficit. But to remain friends, I’m willing to say they are comparable, sound good?

 

Extra weight of Turbo S will be painful during cornering...if weight doesn't matter than why not go with Taycan Turbo GT sub 2.0 0-60 and dealers are more motivated with discount

 

Performance is not limited to 0-60 time, which is highly impacted by the initial traction issues (at low speeds, no car has a gear ratio that's low enough to deliver power efficiently); the 911 has always been helped by its rear engine layout in that exercice but when both cars have gained some speed, the higher power of the 296 takes the advantage (all tests confirm that). And standing start acceleration numbers are not the only metric for performance anyway - Porsche 911 turbo S official Nurburgring lap time, 7:03.92; Ferrari 296 GTB AF 6:58.70 (which is not a manufacturer effort, but a - good - journalist one).

 

Ok, you all win! I’m not sure any of us are running GTBs or Turbo S’s on the “ring, (I’m impressed if you are), but I’ll take your word for i: “the 296 is much higher performance than the ugly duckling.”

 

Saw a post on the LinkedIn this morning indicating some Ferrari dealers are offering discounts off of MSRP. Fake news or real?

 

I think in real world conditions on real roads and road speeds the Turbo S (.2) will be quicker than a 296 or pretty much anything. I certainly wouldn’t take it over a 296 though. Not even close.

 

In addition to what others have said about 0-60 times, lets not forget the obvious fact that the Turbo S is AWD while the 296 is RWD.

That makes a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE difference

 

Porsche know how to build daily fast car, the cabinet space, comfort seating, easy of entry/exit, smart lift (will lift the car by GPS location, I wish Ferrari would offer this )...I can go on and on. As reference, one of my wife daily is a Taycan Turbo J1.2 with 870HP and this thing fly but this is a appropriate sub $200K Porsche and so does the .2 Turbo S (maybe mid $200K) but not at low/mid $300K. Indeed, 911 is a better daily but 296 value proposition currently is very strong.