given that history shows us that no great "civilation" remains on top ? (romans, greeks, brits, etc). in what time frame does this country collapse and why?
Am I selfish because I hope it doesn't implode until I am dead? ...or at least until I buy my Ferrari! <--shallow
50+ yrs. Look how long the roman, greek, and egyptian civilizatinos lasted. We have something they didnt, advanced technology. We will not become too big like the romans, we wont have states attacking other states like the greeks, and i dont even know what happened to the egyptians, but i can assure you that whatever happened to them wont happen to the US. I think that the major countries in existance now will be the same ones that are present when the human race comes to an end.
You left out a choice.... NEVER. Why are you so pessimistic? I understand history has a definate tendency to repeat itself and it is also true that the great civilizations like the Romans have self-destructed but I do NOT think that we will. Call it a hunch...
if history repeats itself...... you think that this time it's different? let's see: country is being over run by illegals overtaxed uncompetitive overpaid ponzi scheme medicare and social security coming due zero responsibility / cultural problems education system list goes on and on..... i think technology speeds up the process (not eliminates it)
In the book America's Man on Horsback by Guy Odem, the author notes that throughout history, all nations government's have a proven lifespan of approx 250 years. I'd say we are about due.
Henry, most of the things you listed are problems that the gov't can fix. There is no way the US gov't can be overthrown. Look what happens to all those militias that try. People are also way to complacent to try that anyway. The point about illegals is true though, they are everywhere now. If they or any other people tried to take over this country, i'd help stop them. Granted our gov't makes mistakes and does alot of bad things, but its still a whole lot better than those of other countries.
i'm not talking about being overthrown. britain, france, spain were all super powers once. for various reasons they fell from grace. i'm talking about going from a vibrant wealth creating country to a "slumland" of sorts. i believe that this country is at a crossroads. on one hand, we can choose the route of personal freedom and responsibilty (which creates wealth) or the big brother approach. 50 + years ago, i think it didnt matter. but given the global enviroment and technology you must be competitive and efficient or there is no reason to be in the US. i look at my own situation. what i pay in taxes, contribute and what i get in return. the costs are way outta wack. i could easily do what i do overseas at much less cost and at some point a better standard of living. others must be in the same situation?
You know it is interesting that you bring that up, I have thought the same many times. I would love to move to Italy TODAY but I worry about the ability to make a living sufficient to sustain the life-style I want. But I guess with the internet... who knows?
i agree that you left out a much longer term choice, something like 300 years. things won't stay the way they are today, just like they aren't the way they were 50 or 150 years ago, but the usa will continue for a long time. the reason i am so confident about that is that we are the at the forefront of democracy. we didn't necessarily invent the concept but we were the first to put it into real practice in a large country, (eg switzerland has had a democratic system for over 700 years but a lot smaller area and a lot more rules and demographic engineering along the way). it may not be the perfect system, but so far it is the most successful type of government, and is constantly being adopted whenever people have enough freedom to do so. so my answer; lots of bending and adaption will follow, but we will be around as an entity, and probably as one of the leading countries of the world for some time. (nb i did not say THE leader because at some point that mantle may pass to a greater economy with more to lose like china, but that won't happen for quite a while).
GOVERNMENTS FALL FROM WITHIN. From what I'm seeming, I have grave suspicions that our demoracy is losing. Once our freedoms go, the form of government will change. Look at the Roman empire, and what happened to them: endless war, replaced the demoracy with an emperor. It could happen here, all we need is endless war for the government to justify taking away more and more freedoms. Art
"Those who would trade a modicum of liberty for a modicum of security, will soon have neither" Ben Franklin.
how long? about 4 years max, in a 5-4 decission. And remember, any nation that would give up its' freedom for security deserves neither. Live free or die.
I think we'll fall based on global macroeconomics and our monetary policy. If we push the East they can topple us monetarily without ever raising an army. Stop our economy and we are dead. Look what 911 did and that was on the heels of the dot com bust. We are VERY fragile now. If they blew up some grade schools, malls and sports events our economy would come to a grinding halt. If that doesn't happen we will continue to export our manufacturing/production of goods. we will be soley a cosumption based society, but if we make nothing and create nothing but computer screen shots and wal marts then who will buy all the goods? Not the USA, but India and China with their burgeoning middle class and soon to follow Russia once they get the corruption ironed out. Add to that the fact that Social Security, Medicare, Babyboomers etc all come calling for money at the same time we will no longer be able to float the debt. So we'll just print money via the Fed/Treasury which will cause the dollar to fall and our currency will be debased by inflation. Then the banking system colapses....it has happened 4 times in US history so don't say it can't/won't. All fiat money systems eventually run aground. A ponzi scheme eventually falls. So then where are we?
Everytime I see this thread the title of it becomes funnier and funnier to me. Peter's post about goverments only lasting about 250 years was pretty interresting. Thats actually something to think about. If thats the case then I suppose I need to start forming my own goverment and start trying to sell it to all the people of our fine Country Heres my slogan "A Movado on every wrist and a Ferrari in every garage."
Hmm, I guess I didn't know that britain, france, spain were such downtrodden 3rd world countries. I guess Switzerland and the like are cess pools of disgust. I can't even believe I replied to this POS. So what if we don't have the biggest, strongest military. Look at all of the posters here who's countries have been excellent places to live for 100's of years. I'm sure we'll be detrhoned, but it will still be a kick ass place to live......
the roman empire fell because of a myriad of reasons, but one of them was actually that there was far TOO much freedom. freedom to do very little except live off the handouts, and freedom to commit crimes unimpeded. there was an increasing laxity in law enforcement in the capital because they spent more money on bread an circus than security. where your analogy does stand up though is that they had spread themselves too thinly militarily over the their huge empire - that does start to hurt your abilities after a while.
The fall of the Roman empire was accelerated when the soldier's religion of Mythra was replaced with the religion of Christianity. Under the previous belief system, the Roman army was very dirty, brutal, often going direct for the gental region inorder to inhance the other sides fear. After Christianity, the romans generals and trainers decided to downplay these agressive and dirty tactics, and the strength of the Roman armies was never the same.
That's exactly what all of those other countries said before they fell. Technology will hasten the demise of America, not slow it down. We have access to so much more, society degrading material, than we used to. We have very little moral backbone left in this country. That is precisely what began the mesopotamians demise, the romans, and the greeks. Heard of sadam and gamora(dont think those are spelled correct). I own my own business and I can barley hire American youth anymore. Almost no where in history can you name a society in which the children were killing the children. They are so lazy and stupid. I have 2 Brazillians, 1 puerto rican, 1 columbian, and 1 french guy. Only one American besides myself. I am gonna make my money and leave. Convenience does not equal a strong country.
Nah, lets see: country is being over run by illegals D@mn right about that. Dilution of value system... overtaxed No - Most other countries are taxed way more uncompetitive No way. We are a competitive giant worthy of business respect and envy anywhere - 20 years ago everyone said we would be 2nd rate & Japan Inc. would own America. What happened there, guy? overpaid Disagree ponzi scheme medicare and social security coming due v Sure thing there. But have some faith that good Americans of good intellect, just like you, will address that. zero responsibility / cultural problems So? We address it every day- arent we doing that now? What is this thread? education system Still great, despite the unions, whose stranglhold I believe we have to break. list goes on and on..... Challenges to greatness. I have faith and belief that this is the greatest country ever. Read the Federalist Papers. If they don't inspire you, then you are three days dead.
