Are we going to be nuked at election time?

Believe me no one is trying to be more objective than I am about this but very well I can leave it at that. BTW did you actually read what I posted from the Hartford press? It is in dirrect support of the Arab view.

 

Of course I read it. Let me put this in a nutshell because I suspect we probably agree on most facets of this issue.

1) Israel and her citizens has the right to safety and security
2) They understandably have a siege mentality because innocent people get blown up almost every single day and any government must protect its citizens
3) The main problem the Palestinians face is their own corrupt, weak and incompetent leadership
4) There are countless "Arabs" who support the terrorists
5) There are also countless Arabs who just want to live their lives in peace, provide for their families, but have no opportunity to do so
6) The far right in Israeli politics (and members of the Likud party itself) do not want peace with Palestinians and do not want them to have a homeland. Expanding settlements is simply anti-peace.
7) Until the Palestinians have a democratic leadership and a homeland, this cycle of violence will continue
8) There is nothing more dangerous than someone who has nothing to lose

Do you agree with those statements?

I worry about the Mid-East every single day. If I had a solution, I wouldn't keep it to myself. All I know is that the present situation will just lead to more and more violence.

Regards,
Joe

 

In a nutshell, yes!

 

Well then Charles - we just made a break-through of sorts. We're on the same page after all.

Regards,
Joe

 

I might even take it one step further and say it was probably a bad idea to set up the state of Isreal right in the heart of the Arab world. Kind of an accident waiting to happen don't you think?

 

I suppose we did! My Regards as well.

 

Charles - if you have Flash on your computer, check this out:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/flash/0,5860,720353,00.html

Quite interesting.

 

<<Once again, Israel forgave its enemies and gave back the oil rich Sinai to Egypt. Today, we see world leaders demanding that Israel give back still more of their land. What more will the world ask of Israel.?"

Interesting how even these highly inteligent well respected proffessors also use generalities when making a point. >>

Oil rich Sinai?? I thing these profesors are not as smart as they think they are.

Bob

 

So do the peaceful Palestinians. Every time you see a Palestinian house get bulldozed, you will see another bombing.

So, in effect, the disenfranchized Palestinians are defending themselves against their foe--Isreal because their Palestinian government cannot. Since they have no access to real weapons, they make use of the only real weapon available--suicide bombings. Cheap and effective, if casualty prone.

For those with short memories, the Arabs still blame the "west" for the Crusades! It is not a generational thing, it permiates the entire culture.

Quite right, there can be no semblance of peace until the settlements are gone.

Until the Palestineans have a government of their own choice (in whatever form) and that government is capable of defenting its citizens from Isreali incursions, there is simply no hope.

Either here or there.

 

art, you are right. thanks for the link. this is good reference info. i guess every 500 posts or so we do agree.

 

It's interesting that the talk of "Palestinian democracy" et al.....has come to the forefront amongst some of those here as a solution to the problem at hand.......

Why do some of these same people also have a problem with Iraq then......when Iraq was a bigger threat to the ever so coveted "world peace and stability" (like we "all" don't want that....duh) than the Palestinians are ? It's this same Iraqi democracy that is going to change that country and those people for the better as well.

It must be an election year.

 

can anyone recommend a few good books which walk through the arab-isreal history? Would love a combination of strictly factual works as well as works with biases and opinions.

thanks.

 

My .02 cents....I am very much pro the war on terror. Hunt down these savages and kill them. However,I just had a reporter friend come back from Israel. He is Jewish but what he told me really surprised me. He spoke to a number of Israeli's and Palistinians and covered this whole land issue for the last 3 months. The stories he heard were really shocking. Here is the what he gathered....Daily the IDF conducts raids into arab homes and really tear these people's stuff up. IDF soldier's urinate on sofas and clothing during searches. The men are slaped and humiliated infront of the family. Books are torn and furniture broken. By the time the IDF leaves the home, nothing is left intact and the families spirit broken. Tanks drive over parked cars for no reason whatsoever. Computers at offices are not confiscated but destroyed with the butt of the IDF's M-16's. From what he said, the IDF goes out of their way to destroy property and demean the spirit of the people. Many soldiers told him, they had no idea what they were even doing or looking for during these operations. Many soldiers told him "arabs are sub human and deserve everything we do to them." I think it's this dehumanizing that the IDF has been practicing for such a long time that has created this utmost hatred of them by the Palistinians. Now, strapping a bomb belt on and walking onto a bus is by no means an answer. That is just wrong and must be stopped. Is going in and out of refugee camps, conducting raids the right way to combat this terror? Yes, as long as terrorists are the target.

 

Ricky - see the Flash link I posted for Charles below - very informative overview.

KDS - Speaking just for myself, when I seek democracy, stability and a homeland for Palestinians, I am only referring to a resolution of the Arab-Israeli conflict, not referring to the world at large.

Regards,
Joe

 

Joe...

I wasn't referring to anyone here by name and not you either.......I was just making a generalization about the theme I had noticed. Interesting thread.

 

That is interesting Joe, thanks for the link!

 

Art, your link is also a good one, thanks for that!

 

take it easy don't get too hasty, i am still convinced of my ideas ! what i appreciated about the link was the factual info that can be used in other discussions. i am no big fan of the way the israelis go about their business with the palestinians - and i have not defended them in this forum beyond the extent that they are at least the only democracy between the med and the indian ocean. i have again seen first hand when i went to israel, just how badly the palestinians are treated. unfortunately, they are almost equally mistreated by arafat with his duplicitous actions and embezzlement of their aid money. the worst moment in recent history for the arab/israeli conflict was when rabin was murdered - he was on the brink of getting the deal done; its a shame.

 

kds, good point.

 

Art,

Don't forget the bizarre alliance between the extreme right in Israel ("Greater Israel" folks) and the fundamentalist American Christians who want to see "Greater Israel" return as a precursor to Armageddon. The same folks who buy millions of those "Last Times" books. Pretty scary combo.

Regards,
Joe

 

10,000 BPD? Not exactly "oil rich"

BTW, I have to be in Montreal on the 29th