No Wonder People From the Middle East Hate Americans

I had to read that several times before I actually believed it was not an April fools joke. This history books in your neck of the woods clearly have some glaring errors.

If the US had submitted to Japanese demands in early 1942.... exactly what flag would have flown over Sydney before the end of that year? Given that the Japanese killed over 5 million civilians in China during their occupation.... how many Australian civilians would they have killed occupying that nation? Yea...... the US doesnt know how to "really win a war".

The US won WWII, with the considerable help of the Soviets. The British would NEVER have been able to stand against Hitler long term without the direct help of the US. Where do you think all the fuel for the fighter planes that won the Battle of Britain came from? Who paid for it? Who was providing escorts for British convoys a full year and half before being officially in the war? Who GAVE the British over $50 BILLION in direct military and financial aid, without which it would not have been capable of fighting the war at all?

It is quite possible that the Soviets would have beaten Germany on their own, but not England (it may have taken the Soviets another couple of years and it would have left all of Europe living under the red plague). The US beat both Germany and Japan by CRUSHING THEM COMPLETELY. We did not worry about whether they respected us. WE did not care about public opinion polls amongst their civilians. We did not concern ourselves with the sad plight of the unfortunate civilian casualties.

In war..... "respect" as you say is something that counts for less than a fully loaded magazine. The US has never achieved the objective you say? What crap. You just dont understand what the objective actually is. You say its to "restore peace" but I dont think you understand how that is actually achieved.

Peace was not restored to Japan by respecting the plight of the people there. Peace was restored by killing the people. The US killed over 500,000 Japanese civilians.... women and children.... during the '44/'45 bombing campaign. Result: surrender and the end of the war. THIS brought peace and the end to all the killing on both sides. The Japaneses were just as fanatical (actually much more so, and they possessed far more courage and will to fight for what they believe in) as any islamic fundamentalists. Still, we defeated them totally and put an end to the belief system that lead to the war in the first place.

You will not achieve lasting peace until one side forces the other to surrender its beliefs and submit to the will of the other. For the Islamic Fundamentalists victory means all Jews must be thrown out of the middle east, Israel destroyed, all US influence and personel out of the middle east AND fundamentalist Islamic religion must be prevalent throughout the world. Infidels.... according to their God.... should be killed. YOU are an infidel by the way.

For the US victory means ending completely the belief and support for this type of fundamentalists islam. As long as fundamentalist islam is preached/taught/practiced... we will have terrorists attacks and instability throughout the world. It will get worse and worse as they fight harder and harder for their victory. The LESS we respond to this with deadly force, the MORE they will be capable of attacking.

You say the US means of waging war leaves our enemy hating us and is thus a failure? Do the Japanese hate us? Heck no.... they are one of our best allies and top trading partners. Despite the fact that we burned their nation to the ground, killed their leaders, forced the reality upon them that their God was actually just a man, and killed over 500K of their civilians.... today they are one of our best allies. Given your opinion, how exactly do you explain that?

Do your research: The vast majority of Iraqis DO NOT hate the US. Check the data. Most of them are happy the US is there. Most say they are much better off now than before under Saddam. The majority are better economically, healthcare is better, schools are better, they have freedom of religion and the press and their economy is beginning to bloom. You can spout the "they hate us" crap all day but that does not change the reality of what is actually happening on the ground over their. Just because several thousand pissed off ex-Saddam henchmen and foreign terrorists are killling people and trying to wreck the Iraqi recovery does not mean the other 50 million Iraqis hate the US.

What happened in Fallujah is horrible. Clearly its a hotbed of terrorists support. Its in the Sunni triangle was a base of support for Saddam. To me... this is the front line in the war. I have no problem with the Army razing that place to the ground. Sure... give the locals some time to come forward and turn over EVERYONE who helped or even celebrated the killing and displaying of those Americans, but if they dont submit to "unconditional surrender" and get with the program, make an example of them. Burn the place to the ground.

At some point you must make the enemy face the ultimate reality. You have two choices: You can surrender your beliefs and submit to the will of your enemy OR you accept the total destruction of your entire population, history, religion and culture. When we make the fundamentalists face THIS reality.... THEN we will be in a position to win this war.

This may indeed end up requiring the killing of thousands. However, which is better? Kill 100,000 now in an all out campaign OR screw around being concerned about the enemies respect and have 3000-4000 die every year for the next 100 years?

You say:

"The British and their forces did what they had to and applied with the conventions, and are thus not seen as war hungry fools. They have my respect."

Uhhhhhh do you mean the night terror bombing of German cities with the deliberate purpose of creating fire storms and killing as many civilians as possible? Perhaps you refer to the British attacking the French fleet at anchor and killing over 1500 French sailors even though France was an ally and the French fleet had taken no hostile action toward them? (this was done in North Africa in 1942 to prevent the possibility of the French fleet following Vichy orders and turning the fleet over to the Germans).



Terry

 

I'm still waiting to find out what Geneva Convention article was broken...

The American soldiers technically did nothing "wrong". Yes, they did something which will prolong peace. Yes, they did something which some have percieved as heavy handed. Please tell me what they did that was wrong.

 

Guys: I don't think those who know me here would accuse me of being a flaming liberal, but it does look like those guys might have crossed a line or two under the Geneva Convention. Take a look at "Art"icles 33 & 53, respectively, which includes the following:

Reprisals against protected persons and their property are prohibited.

Any destruction by the Occupying Power of real or personal property belonging individually or collectively to private persons, or to the State, or to other public authorities, or to social or cooperative organizations, is prohibited, except where such destruction is rendered absolutely necessary by military operations.

Of course, those same protections should have been available to the civilians who just got shot, fragged, burnt and strung up by the locals in Fallujah.

I don't condone one because of the other; certainly, there have been instances where playing by the rules gets our guys (and gals) killed all too easily.

Chances are (and i am no expert on military law, or the Geneva Convention), they woulda, shoulda been detained, perhaps the vehicle confiscated if it was part of a crime, like looting, and these guys given some modicum of due process, whilst sitting it out in the local jail, until bail. I doubt anybody has much time for that, and tempers being what they are, what we saw in the video is probably how alot of nonmilitary, petty crimes are handled.

Unfortunately, i believe that the vast majority of people from the Middle East will never get the opportunity to understand what our values or beliefs are, and its not because of this small incident. There is so little in common between the cultures at war, except at the most base level of kill or be killed. Perhaps that's what it all comes down to, and that's why its ugly.

 

Good post, thanks for finding the Geneva Convention article.

 

you mean of course Saudi Arabia, NOT Iraq!!!

FFS another dumb 9/11 post by ***wits who can't differentiate between Saudis, Afghans, or Iraqies.

There is no point trying to enlighten the gun-toting rednecks Pete, their ammo size has exceeded their IQ long ago.....Oh, and btw Aussies and Kiwis were known for atrocities in the Vietnam war which neanderthals here take great pride in relating sad to say.

 

Yes they were idiots, but so is the average American. Which of course the average soldier is not on par with the average American. That's why they are our killing machines. They are the warrior class. At least they were not shot. Most countries would have shot them. They got off easy. But they should not have done it. I agree. Of course we are talking about a country that is 1500 years behind civiliazation. Until oil became a world product in the 50s they were desert nomads that still lived by the rules of the world a couple thousand years ago. Those rules are simple: You have power over me or I dominate you. You steal from me or I steal from you. Simple. I went to college with alot of middle easterners and they cheat and steal every chance they get. They will steal from there mother and there brother if it will advance them. Sorry to any of the middle easterners present but that attitude is prevelant in their culture. Iranians and Indians are different but the rest of the middle eats is like that. They are almost all 100% dictatorships and they almost all believe in totrture of their own people. So you must squash them or they will not respect you. Hence the attitude of the soldiers.

 

LoL , imagine seeing bush jr. in a uniform actually fighting in a war risking his own life....... nice graphic design work though

 

Hey, Alan: I resent that. I consider myself exceptionally American.

 

Where are you from? I do have middle eastern friends. But they have always been second generation. Americanized of Britainized. All of the first generation midlle eastern student I delt with were cheats. Sorry. And I new alot of them. I own my own business also and overwhelmingly you can't trust them. It is not neccessarily a bad thing. The rules were just different a 1000 years ago. We lived by the same rules. The Brits concered lands and that was very accepted. Take or be taken from. Dominate or be dominated. Much of the world still lives like this. The only difference is, is the middle east became wealthy overnight. So they have weapons and power of the modern world, but attitudes of the ancient world.

 

I'm trying to see this from both sides. Sure the soldiers don't get why they are getting shot at while they try and help out Iraqis, but then again you watch this kind of stuff and you understand why. It may not be every soldier doing this but the Iraqis don't see it that way. They see it as American soldiers being ********'s and they take it out on every American they see.

 

Sorry to burst your superiority complex, but until the sanctions, Iraqi society was one of the most literate in the Middle East. They absolutely prized education. Even when people were starving, among the last possessions they would sell off for food were the family books.

Indians are middle easterners? All of them lie and cheat and would steal from their mothers? Your ignorance and narrow mindedness is stultifying.

 

There are very big differences between Hindus(majority of Indians) and Muslims. And of course I know it is the middle east you moron, but there cultural norms are very different. They are not angel either, but they are better than the rest of the region. I do agree that Iraqis were among the most educated, but that does not change their cultural mores or norms. Lie,cheat and steal. Even when they come to America and become doctors. Trust me I know them. Went to school witht them.

 

Huh? India is NOT in the Middle East.
Indian Muslims are NOT Middle Eastern.
Indian Hindus are NOT Middle Eastern.

As for honest versus dishonest, I can't make head or tail of your post. Who is honest? Who isn't? Indians? Iraqis? Muslims? Hindus? People you went to school with are/were dishonest, so everyone from similar ethnic or religious groups is? Everyone from even dissimilar ethnic or religious groups is dishonest too?

Except you, of course. Hmmm...

And you are calling me a moron? Lol!!!

 

Don't get too exited TVR. When I say middle eastern, I just mean they are from almost exactly the same region of the world. I just meant, within that region, Israelites and Indians are the exception to the rule. Most of the other countries operate exactly as I have said.

 

Glad you didn't cheat along with your Middle Eastern friends. I will try to contain my excitement. Clearly you got a lot out of your education.

 

That's why they call me Dr.

 

Who, the Middle Easterners?

 

good one, but no. All my patients.

 

Thank you for an amazing right up.
If they would wait and let the process take its course they have the potential to be one of the riches countries in the world.

 

I think the point we're missing here is that these soldiers were probably hundreds of mile from any command post on remote patrol to take these offenders to. This incident was also not major enough to risk a convoy driving 100 miles plus to pick up the offender for proper prosecution. So they handle it as judge and jury which I’m pretty sure they are orders to do (Iraq is under martial law). Even though I didn’t see one in the video I’m sure there was an Officer or seeing and approving the whole incident.

 

We must dominate them totally. They will only understand this. That is how their culture operates. Dominate or be dominated. Too much PC bull **** going on. Cruch them fast and hard. Less life lost. Help them rebuild. Actually let the UN do it.

 

awesome post terry.

 

Moretti,

I did not mention any country, I think you have got your posts confused? ie. I did not mention Saudis, Afghans or Iraqies in my reply I quote:

My poor understanding is that we have invaded Iraq because of terrorisim ... thus this is related to the 9/11 act as it was an act of terrorisim. In the end it does not matter where the individual originates from, as we even had an Australian or 2 on the terrorists side over their somewhere.

Pete

 

What has this to do with anything I posted?. I never mentioned anything about the Japanese lack of ethics in fighting wars ... ? Never said Americans could not win a fight ...

Thank you America for providing the money, and the convoys. I still stick to my guns that the disciplined approach to fighting wars of the British is how an army should operate.

We are not fighting a world war at the moment ...

I'm sorry but what right has American to exterminate other peoples beliefs which is exactly what you have said above. That is not the way to win a war permanately, ie. destroy anothers belief as you cannot do that, it is impossible. BTW I am very much pro this war , but not pro this sort of ****.

Never said we should not exterminate the terrorists ... but driving over a civilians car in a tank does not acheive this.

If America was not such a huge market for their goods it MIGHT be a different story ... funny how money rules everything.

Agree, but the money is running out and unrest is starting ... do your research. Thus if you read ALL my posts, I stated that we must keep the money flowing and FINISH the job.

Never said they hate us ... again try and read . I said they WILL hate us if we keep doing these undisciplined actions to civilians.

Agree.

This civilian was NOT the enemy ... he was a looter. Do you get my point yet?

Yes I actually believe in this sort of maths.

Learnt something and this was not right.


Okay my say:

What I was trying to say is that this action on a looting civilian does NOT help the war cause just causes the average person on the ground to get pissed off with Americans (and the rest of the colition forces). We need to treat all civilians with respect no matter what their beliefs are because they are NOT fighting us ... the extremists are!!!, and yes shoot, run them over with a tank whatever, but not the civilians (where we can).

An American solider should not be seen driving a tank over somebodies car (which may have taken him ALL his life savings to purchase ... who knows) because of anything ... that is NOT what they are there for ... very BAD PR.

Pete

 

Later he found out the car was used as a taxi and his livelihood and then later than that he discovered that he also used it to carry amonium nitrate for terrorism activities and killing and injuring troops. I have no sympathy for people who loot and those who condemn the troops for this punishment surely can not call themselves American and should be ashamed. By the way I am an Aussie. Regards Tony