why do v12 ferraris depreciate so quickly while v8's do so much better?

Those numbers are way off. 98 550's for 140K? lol How about 03's for 175? Only numbers there that are close are for the 512 and 348. 110K for a 98 Spider? lol

A 98 550 is 110-115K car.

 

All, please understand that I'm not saying that these numbers represent the current market value of these cars. All I wanted to do was to build a model that used the same information to compare V8s to V12s from the same year.

Of course, the FML numbers are too high for many reasons, not the least of which is that the fact that Mr. Rouse lumps years and options together (e.g., F1s) I just discounted them all by 90% to make them a little more realistic. Although, personally, I think the result is not bad when you say that the average price for a 1997 to 2001 Maranello is $127,500. I doubt that you'd be able to buy a 2001 for that price. I also doubt that you could sell a 1997 for that price.

But I'm afraid that you folks are missing my point, which is, uh, well, wait a moment, it will come to me....

 

I too am more of a fan of the mid engined look. I would NEVER consider a 550/575 just too bland inho. I guess that's why there's such a list for the V8's and not the V12's. Bring back a mid engined 12 priced between 200 and 300K and watch the people line up.

 

Oh yeah, now I remember...

Clearly, the V8s are attracting a new (and probably younger) buyer to the clan. Thus, the reason that the V12s deprecicate faster is supply and demand.

For example, talk about timing, Ferrari introduced the Modena right as the stock market was coming to a boil. You have a bunch of newly minted millionaires who were buying toys. Ferrari just happened to hit the market with exactly the right car. Remember the buzz in 1999 when it came out? How soon we forget. Here was a sexy Italian sports car that anybody could drive and it was a major hit on the boulevard for most and the track for a few.

Then to top things off, it has a sticker price of $150k v. $210k

If Ferrari had been up-to-speed with respect to tracking the market like Walmart, they would have immediately cranked up the production of 360s and slowed the 550 and 456 runs.

But that's not the way Ferrari works. They don't have the production technologies to switch out production lines in response to market forces. Their attitude is that we're gonna build this many of those and that many of these.

The result was simple supply and demand. The market wanted more 360s and Ferrari gave them 550s and 575s. Consequently, the real prices of 360s went through the roof and the real prices of Maranellos tanked.

Speaking from a sample size of one, I'm one happy camper.

Now, is Frank right? Will 575s be worth more on a percentage basis than 360s in 10 to 15 years? Who knows. All I can say is that I'm driving mine now.

Dr "Happines is a Warm Maranello" Tax

 

Hmmm. I guess on the basis of this discussion I'm a 37 year old old fart.

I would guess that many Ferrari buyers want 'a Ferrari', and are not necessarily pondering the subtleties of different models' technical layout.

Think Ferrari - think flashy aggressive sports car to pose in, not elegant GT car to drive 300 miles in at one sitting.

So, many people's idea of a Ferrari is better reflected by a mid-engined 8 cylinder than a front-engined 12 cylinder. So they're more in demand... Also, the 360 shape is much 'newer' to the market than the 550/575 or 456 (if you like that sort of thing).

I'd imagine the market perceives the 512 TR (and F50) as much more like the 8 cylinder cars than the current 12 cylinder cars in character, so they do quite well. (How many TRs do you see that aren't red, for a start...?)

One thing's for sure - the slightly odd 612 will lose you a shed-load of money if you buy one new and keep it for any longer than about 18 months. (The 456 did the same - and that was attractive !!)

Personally, I wouldn't buy an 8 cylinder Ferrari of any vintage as to me they sound - with the greatest respect - more like Lotuses. Granted though that the 308/328 and 355s are very handsome.

I'd go for a 911 anyday.

Have you heard a 993 or facelift 996 with sports exhaust lately..? Superb.

John

 

It may not be a V-12 vs V-8 situation. It may just be that the 360 was a giant step forward, and very desireable, while the 550/575 were not ground breaking designs. Forget the 456. Four seat Ferraris have never held their value, regardless of engine configuration.

I don't think that the depreciation numbers for the 550/575 are out of line with the industry. We see many $100k+ cars of all types experiencing high depreciation. After all, any Ferrari built since Ferrari started building in volume are just used cars and their depreciation will follow traditional depreciation curves for the segment.

I believe that the 360 is holding it's value because it was a drastic step forward in design, comfort, performance and style. That caused increased demand, which results in strong used car prices, expecially for the Spider, which is bought primarily for it's style and image. The 360 is performing better than traditional curves for it's segment because it caught the imagination of the consumer in ways that most cars only hope to do.

Now, every manufacturer is bringing out a $100k+ supercar and the 360 is no longer a giant leap forward. We already see evidence of falling values for 360s. The question is, will the 360 replacement be able to maintain the momentum and retain value over time in the same way the 360 did? Probably not, but only time will tell.

 

Very well put, Bill. You said it better than I. The 360 is one hell of a car.

Thx, DrTax

 

Dr. Tax,
I didn't take the figures as the main point, as your %-age comparison is very useful tool. I just thought you may saw these figures somewhere, and 512TR price got my attention. 94 512TR for $90K is a bargain $ for me! Sorry if I sounded differently.

 

I, as an owner of a little V-12 Ferrari, do not care about the resale price of my machine.

Those who like a back seat v-8 desirer one.

 

No problem. I realize that trying to bring facts into a car guy "debate" may not be cool. Point is that for those of us who like the V12 cars, life is very good on the used market.

 

You've got to be joking!! I can appreciate stratospheric prices for bespoke items such as cams, cranks, cylinder liners, blocks, etc etc etc. But for something that should be as standard as a high-flow injector - they want an arm and a leg?!?

Damn - how do you guys keep from being tempted to put in a JDM part that works identically for 1/10th the price? I guess it's investment now - versus resale later on.

That's unreal.

 

I agree, Dr. Tax. As one who just moved up from a 348 to a '98 Maranello last month, I am thankful for the Maranello's depreciation schedule. And it is one hell of a car.

(Thank you Dr. Tax and Mr. Doody for your persuasive postings over the past 6 months on the merits of the Maranello - you guys are the reason I have one now and I couldn't be happier!)

 

Congrats! Contact Rob if you want to change your user name to something that reflects upon you and your GT.
__

Kids today - money or not, desire instant gratification & are into low, low, low cars - as the recent "How do I lower a Dino" (sacrilige!) thread can attest. Ah, youth! Dino - as many will attest is a "sexy" car. 360 has evolved Dino lines, IMHO.
__

Picture, if you will, 2 women laying down, face up... heads are the rear of the cars, each has a gaping chasm at the front:

GT's still have big hooters intact and her long legs are together -
"Foreplay? OK, baby. I'll make you scream and smile at the same time."
For men with experience."

360 lays low and wide -
"Here comes the bride, legs open wide..."
Definitely a younger mindset.

Bottom line: Sex sells. Instant gratification for the Playboys. Getting that much more satisfaction from 4 more cylinders for the ones who've been there, done that.

 

There is no 1995 348 TS.

 

I got the MSRP info from this page..

http://www.ferrariclub.com/msrp/

 

Yoshi--- You painted a perfect portrait of my dream car. If I could change one thing about my 512TR, this would be it.....

 

Congrats, you brought a great car! What color is it and pics please!

Once again, I'd like to add that the main criterion in buying an expensive car/toy is smiles per mile. Don't ever kid yourself about buying a Ferrari as an investment. Even those in the bidness will tell you, after a few beers, that there are easier ways of making money.

That said, a Ferrari is a lot of money and, thus, it pays to preserve your capital. I have always been told that your most expensive Ferrari is your first one. If you buy right and take care of it, you will have enough equity remaining to leverage up into your next one.

It is also worth noting that you can't really compare different models against each other. Take a 512 TR compared to a Maranello, for example. Completely different cars. The only thing they have in common is the name and 12 pistons. A mid-engined car is a different breed of cat than a front-engine car. I'm not saying that you can't like both, but they are very, very, different cars.

Take care, DrTax

 

It is rossa corsa with tan interior, in nearly perfect condition, 7700 miles, belts done a month ago, and new rear tires. Not my first color choice, but after 3 weeks, it is growing on me. I'll be changing my username to reflect the new car, already asked Rob about it. Don't have any good pics of my own yet, maybe this weekend, but here are two that the dealer (Algar) took:
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many good points made that i can agree with, especially from parker.

i had a 348ts and did not relish the experience, but was told that 12 cylinder ferraris had better build quality, which suited me just fine because i had always wanted to own a 512 - so thats what i bought. it turned out to be everything promised - and more. the simple anecdotal lesson learned for me was that i like the 12's more than 8's. but that is a personal choice.

another point i think needs to be made is that many of you are forgetting that used car price depreciation is not a concern of ferrari's. they sell their new cars, almost without trying too hard, and usually before they are even made (with the obvious exceptions of late model 456's of course). so they don't really care whether the car of choice for those 25-35 year olds with some money is the 360, vs the 550/575 - they've already been paid for all the cars anyway.

furthermore, i think they are somewhat sensitive to demand changes for new cars, since personally i think the 360 replacement is being delayed in part because they know they can continue selling the old model for another few years without any real danger of being left with excess inventory.

as for those who want a modern 12 cylinder mid engine car, you can either get a 512tr/m, or if you want a brand new one, then go for the murci - and yes i wish ferrari had made that car and would encourage them to build one to beat it.

 

Very interesting thread and have wondered the same thing myself lots. As a 25 yr old when I bought my first Ferrari, there was no doubt in my mind which one to get. I had a budget of 60K pounds which puts plenty of 456s and LHD 12 cylinders within grasp. However for someone of my age I think the V8s like 355 and 360 are what apeal - slightly more sporty looks and sound.

If I could afford it and had 150K pounds, I would get an old F40 rather than a new 550 or 575.

I might be generalising here, but sporty sells to the 25yr olds. Perhaps the guys who are in the market for 550 and 575 are a lot richer and therefore only want new cars and can afford the depreciation...? VERY general point - sure there are plenty of exceptions

Ade