Mechanics from hell!

WOW! Kind of takes the wind out of my sail.
Better than 25 yrs ago I decided that I really enjoyed working on Ferrari's for a living. I enjoyed the challange to make everything better than what it was when it was new.
As a shop owner / mechanic / floor washer, I can tell you that it is impossible to hire a Ferrari tech. There are few willing to put forth the effort anymore. Honda and Toyota are both paying their techs vastly more than any Ferrari dealer tech makes. The only way to get a Ferrari tech is to make one. One has to find a tech that is burned out on the "slam it in, slam it out" mentality, get them to agree to accept less money than they could get working in the mass market jobs and then have them accept the fact that it will take quite a number of years before they will be truly good at the job.
Hearing that good service is the exception and not the rule is quite sad. At what point did working on Ferrari's become a test of how fast a job can be done? I read all the posts of how a motor can be cocked sideways and belts slipped on in a 355. Ferrari's are not transportation, they are a passion, and should run that way. I spend better than 3-4hrs just getting the cam timing set so both banks pull evenly on these cars. I have spent a great amount of hours checking cam timing before belts are removed just to find out how much the timing retards when the belts stretch. This way the new belts can be set to stretch into spec........ I read that a major service can be done in 6 hours on a 308-328! RIGHT! Isnt the idea of doing a major service to make the car reliable and to get it to a point where simple routine maintaince is all that is needed for the next 5 years? An oil change on a 360 in 25 mins! How many of these folks are removing the belly pan, and pulling the sump screen and cleaning it on every other oil change, checking the grounds in the engine bay, retensioning the drive belts.....
Every morning I read these columns just to find out what customers are looking for and what is on their minds. Often I find it quite shocking, yet very educational. Maybe asking what customers are looking for from their mechanic would make a good column.
Dave

 

I applaud what Dave Helms said. He is right on the mark. Additionally it should be mentioned that owners can be less than honest from time to time. I recently did a PPI on a car "that just had the major done". Further investigation revealed that it was done in 1999 and just the cam belts were replaced at the owners request. My advice establish a relationship with a mechanic you trust and stay with him, he'll know your car best.

 

I'll second that!! Fortunately I have found a mechanic I trust for each of my Ferrari, Porsche, and BMW. And I always use them... never dream of using anyone else, especially not my unqualified self. The most I will do is try to get it working enough that I can drive it (rather than tow it) to my mechanic... but only after first consulting with my mechanic.

BTW, if you want to see a thread complimenting Ferrari mechanics... OR you'd like to recommend a trustworthy Ferrari mechanic... go here!

 

Oh man...I've got countless stories about rip offs and bad mechanical practice with Ferraris from over the 25 years that I've owned them...don't get me started. Some of it is criminal. Sadly, even with experience it's hard to avoid. Right now, for example, the last mechanic I used took 3 months to do a major and replace an oil line on my 355. He was happy to take the '000s of $$ it cost....but try and get him to do a $40 job or give back up service for a couple of oil leaks I have? He won't even reply to emails! Guess where I won't be spending any more of my money.

 

Dave, I hear ya. Truth is that we are dealing with very low volume/high performance cars. Ferraris are not as unreliable as many people think. On the other hand, I don't think that Ferrari had book rates in mind when designing their cars.

On another note, I'd like to hijack this thread and ask a question about F1 clutchs. (Notice how I did this? Sprinkle a sugar... then blam! Here comes the trap.) Roland sez that you are the man when it comes to F1s. Many, many FChatters have stated that F1s will tank compared to standards once the warranty period ends. I'm not quite so sure about this. I'll agree that many independent techs are going to have to learn some new tricks, but time does march on.

Now, here's my question -- Have you seen any abnormal wear in F1 clutchs? If so, how much is due to driver error? I have been told, for example, that you cannot left foot brake in a F1 because this just confuses the heck out of the F1 brain. Thus, when owners try to use an ad hoc launch control, they are slip sliding away.

Or does using it in the auto mode hurt?

Any light you can shed will be much appreciated. If you like I'll repeat this question in an entirely different thread.

Thx, Dale

ps Have you seen any difference between the 360 F1s and the 575s?

 

I will write back this evening regarding the F1. Personally I think it is a first rate system and will age quite well.
Dave

 

The next time you drive your Ferrari or otherwise exercise your freedom, thank a lawyer. Without lawyers not only would the USA have never been formed or its great Constitution written, but the rights it gives us would not have been protected over the last 228 years or so.

 

I thank my lawyer AND my mechanic, who loaned me the fuel pump off his Miura!!!

It think it's on vacation, supplying my 308!

 

Thanks, feel free to start a separate thread.

Dale

 

PeterS....

Well.......good luck regardless.......

 

Don't worry the devil will protect your car! Probably a fuel truck at 140 mph!

 

I fired my mechanic. The reasons are many but bottom line is he would do a job badly and charge extra to then fix it. I had an SS exhaust installed. The pipe diameters were larger than stock. I started to drive the car home and couldn't engauge 3rd or 4th. The exhaust was physically interfering with the shift linkage. Obviously they didn't test drive the car. His solution? Dent the pipe to make room. He should have repositioned it. His charge for hammer work? $150; 2 hours of labor! Should have been free IMO because he should have done it right in the first lace.

He rebuilt my carbs. Great...a year later I'm running rich. There was no set screw holding the needle! Shoddy rebuild to leave out a set screw.

He installed a VERY expensive water pump; engine out job. The oil pan comes off in this; it leaked when I got it back. Shoddy work. When he refued to replace the gasket for free I fired him. I now do all my own work and am much better off both car wise and money wise.

Ken

 

Until then, what kind of antacid do you recommend we stock up on?

 

Ah, I had a nightmare mechanic. He used to be good, but I personally think he turned into a tweaker since I met him.

10/12/03 What happened was my idiot roommate (NOT my boyfriend), borrowed my Porsche to go to home depot. I warned him that my car was like two months past due to get the clutch replaced. His RX7 was down, I was going out on a date, didn't seem like a big deal.

WRONG...START of a 4 month ordeal!

I only gave him permission to drive nicely to and from Home Depot, about 2 miles from here.

I get home from my date, and we see a Porsche on a flatbed tow truck! I laugh, saying I was glad it wasn't mine (5 in the complex). Then I saw the tags, and wigged!

I got the truth out of him...he felt I wasn't driving my car correctly, and decided to go further to Lowes, and opened her up. Geee, don't remember that being part of the agreement!

Then he admitted that he did the BIG NONO on my car...redlined each gear!

HELLO!? Do you do that to a car that isn't YOURS!? He BLEW THE CLUTCH - get this - 80 MPH in 3rd!? DIE EARTH SCUM was the first thing in my head.

But he's my roommate...I couldn't just run the car over him - wouldn't even do that (car couldn't do it, went .05 MPH in reverse).

Anyway, I had the car towed to what I thought was an excellent mechanic, and one whom had done enough Porsches that I had grown to respect. I even brought a clutch with me, not knowing it was the wrong one (out of a turbo, oops).

I told him I wanted to take photos of the car being worked on, so I could post it on the Porsche board, so everyone could learn! This had been pre-arranged.

The day I showed up, he was running out the door! WTF!? I spent 1 1/2 hours driving down, and he pulled that stunt, though the appointment was made in gold.

So, it sat...and sat...and sat. He didn't respond to my emails, or nothing! I told him to tell me if it was the right clutch; if not, I'd go and get the correct one, and whatever else was needed.

Car was towed there in October...I didn't get the car back until February? He had told me it was only a 4 hour job, for crying out loud.

Anyway, he had his assistant leave a snitty message on my answering machine, and he says to come and get it, and that the cost is $1000 more than agreed upon. NO WAAY!

I take the train down, and have a friend pick me up, and take me over. I am not a happy camper.

THEN they tell me that my car has been ready, and sitting there for WEEKS!?

I am then informed that they put in a USED CLUTCH without my permission, and one with a rubber center? He swore it only had like 20K on it...not happy at all, took the car and drove it all the way home.

All the other work he had promised to do was NOT done, oil cooler leaked internally all the way home! Have oil in the antifreeze. Not much, but enough to piss me off, and I'm going to have to do it myself.

And wait, there's MORE! Guess what he DID NOT replace!? The THROWOUT bearings! That's right, they make a horrible noise, so I am going to have to do the clutch myself in the near future...or turn the stereo up, one of the two. But they will go in time. Question is when.

MORE! So, I loaned my Porsche to my boyfriend to drive to work. Of course, she had to act up on him! Decided to spew gas in the parking garage. Anyway, I determined it was the fuel pressure regulator, so my fellow enthusiast friend came with me. The car, when I was cranking it, shot gas through the regulator 4' up in the air!! We wanted to take pics, but decided we didn't want an engine fire, and wound up replacing the WHOLE rail because we bent the pipe that went to the fuel pressure regulator...OOPS!

I need a can of WD40 at all times, along with antiseize.

Anyway, it got WORSE! Yup!

I tried to shift the car - NOTHING HAPPENED! That's right!

So, we peeled the boot up, and what did we see!? FRICKIN' MORONS didn't put the retaining clip BACK ON the bar that slips into the shifter ITSELF!

Plus they had ripped out the insulation, and didn't put it back...that's right, like little weasels, they dug it out for no reason I could figure out.

It had been wearing down the post the clip goes onto. Evidently, every time I shifted higher, it would come nearly off; when I downshifted, it went back ON!

So, I had to hold it in place, while my friend drove my car over to his place. Fortunately, he had the clip off a turbo, and we slapped it on.

GROSS INCOMPETENCE comes to mind!

I had to grease the hell out of that bar, but I should probably replace it, too.

So, what do you say about a mechanic that puts used parts into your car without your permission, then wants to charge you full price!?

The clip part could have killed me!

After this incident, I am contemplating repainting my car with help from fellow enthusiasts, I just don't trust a regular mechanic any more.

This has hit me so hard, I have been helping to throw self-help classes in Timing belt replacement, and coming up, Headgasket replacements, on botgh N/A and Turbo.

On my other Porsche, I had wonderful mechanics, and never minded paying what they asked for. One even came to the house, and replaced parts on the spot, it was great! Stupid windshield wiper tanks...always have a problem with them.

But this all definitely has influenced me into doing the majority of the work myself, with help from others who are more knowledgeable.

If anyone knows of a good Porsche mechanic in the Orange County area of CA, let me know!

The only consolation with the above incident, is that people were offering to help, it was so sweet of them! Even security was nice about it. I guess they realized I didn't want to tow if I didn't have to.

- Julie

 

The real problem isn't that there are mechanics who are trying to rip people off , it's that there are very few true mechanics left that know how to diagnose a problem . there are thousands of parts changers out there though and the customer is paying for them to practice on their car.

 

Peters, I know how you feel, how is it turning out. Your not wrong and I'm about to do the same thing. Noone could argue against what I've had to go through and spend.
John

 

But at least all the parts you DIDN'T need are new, now!!!! HTH.

 

<He BLEW THE CLUTCH - get this - 80 MPH in 3rd!? DIE EARTH SCUM was the first thing in my head.>


80 in 3rd is bad? Dropping the clutch to take off is far worse, which is probably what he did; or slipped it.


< Have oil in the antifreeze. Not much, but enough to piss me off, and I'm going to have to do it myself.>

Yes, my rule of thumb with my Lotus is that I can screw up my car for a lot less money than my mechanic can, so I now dive right in. You have a blown head gasket; not cheap.



<MORE! So, I loaned my Porsche to my boyfriend to drive to work.>

You are a glutton for punishment, huh!


<Of course, she had to act up on him! Decided to spew gas in the parking garage.>

Hmmm...sounds like a Lotus. Are you SURE it's a Porsche? ;>)

< and wound up replacing the WHOLE rail because we bent the pipe that went to the fuel pressure regulator...OOPS!>

Well, my rule of thumb isn't 100%.



<Anyway, it got WORSE! Yup!

I tried to shift the car - NOTHING HAPPENED! That's right!

So, we peeled the boot up, and what did we see!? FRICKIN' MORONS didn't put the retaining clip BACK ON the bar that slips into the shifter ITSELF!>

But that's for quicker shifts. Less friction that way.

<Plus they had ripped out the insulation, and didn't put it back...that's right, like little weasels, they dug it out for no reason I could figure out.>

Looking for roaches I assume considering how dozy they were doing this supposed work.

<It had been wearing down the post the clip goes onto. Evidently, every time I shifted higher, it would come nearly off; when I downshifted, it went back ON!>

I like self healing cars.

<So, I had to hold it in place, while my friend drove my car over to his place. Fortunately, he had the clip off a turbo, and we slapped it on.

GROSS INCOMPETENCE comes to mind!>

That's an insult to the truly incompetent!



<So, what do you say about a mechanic that puts used parts into your car without your permission, then wants to charge you full price!?>

Not good husband material, that's for sure.



<After this incident, I am contemplating repainting my car with help from fellow enthusiasts, I just don't trust a regular mechanic any more.>

That's what I do.



Ken

 

Amen. My Lotus mechanic mentioned how much he hates when he has to resort to throwing parts at cars (as has happened a few times with subtle drivability issues). I think he takes it personally. That attitude is why he gets my money.

 

Peters I hear you, wouldn't wish your experience to be worse.
but I'm curious, it sounds bad and now I'd be interested in knowing. I've posted my troubles in the Technical section under "328 down, can't be fixed try again". (how do you enter a link to another thread?) email me if you would rather.

thanks
j

 

I had to take my TT in for new rear brakes/rotors last week and an oil change last week. I get a call from the service advisior and he tells me how much the brakes are going to cost. He also tells me that the last time I brought my car and they changed my oil they accidently tightened a valve too hard and could not reattach it so they replaced it no cost along with a new oil pan at no cost. They could have tried to charge me for this and not admitted any wrong doing. They also put a new seat heater mechanism in the driver seat the last time I went there. I noticed a plastic piece on the bottom of the seat broke. I didn't notice this until about a week after I picked up the car. I told them about it, thinking that they would say that they didn't do it or why didn't you call us right away to tell us about this. But they didn't. They said that they would order the part and replace it free of charge. Also I had a squeaky clutch and I wanted them to look at it. I assumed they would say it needs to be replaced even though I know it is in good shape and is not slipping. They fixed the squeaky clutch. They could have charged me for their time but they didn't.

Finding a good mechanic or shop is very important. I always try to form some type of friendship/working relationship with the Service Manager or find a knowledgable Service Advisor. Also if you maintain and take care of your car I believe the mechanic will think you know more about your car(than maybe you really do)and may try not to rip you off.