anyone out there with automotive engineering background? I'm wondering if this sketch shows any basis to believe the frame might have some rollover strength? TIA Image Unavailable, Please Login
It would be responsible if it did, but I very much doubt it. One thing that really pisses me with manufacturers and really shows they do not give a **** for their customers is that absolute lack of roll over protection on road cars. Most death related accidents involve roof collapsing (I BELIEVE) and thus cannot understand why they do not do something about it. We currently have the rediculous situation where they have managed to REDUCE the strength of the roof, by glueing in the front and rear windscreens to increase rigidity ... just wonderful after the glass has broken. In NZ, they actually Ford do not add a roof strengthening member to save cost because they do not have to ... but overseas they do. Thus they are prepared to save $3 (or whatever this little member costs) and put that above their customers safety! Pete
A little more than a Gallardo Spyder - but not much! If it's an issue for you, maybe have a custom roll bar fabricated for your car, covered in matching upholstery? They can be very unobtrusive and still do their task...... Not unusual in modded 993's and TT's.
I'm an engineering student (3rd year), with motorsports as the genre I am most likely going into. Currently into my third year on our formula sae team, www.formularpi.com From that CAD Render it looks like there is protection from a roll over, however you have to take into account what happens during a roll over. If you analyze how roll overs happen in different scenerios, you will probably see the main stress points have been beefed up on the lambo. Where did you find that picture? If you can find me the actual cadfile, I can have FEA done on it and I can tell you exactly what would happen if it was rolled over at specific speeds/loads.
If the rear of that roof structure will support a roll over then my name is Enzo Ferrari ... no way IMO! Pete
I agree...from that picture, it has two huge stress risers in the frame. However, I have a feeling this is not a full CAD schematic/render of the frame in the car. There are probably other supports built in. Considering the overall height is pretty small of that roof, it would take a direct fall onto the roof...like rolling off a 10 story parking grage flat onto the roof, to really flatten it. If you have ever seen Rally crashes, sometimes they flip anbd the roof is not touched!
This was a drawing given out with the Press kit at the Detroit Auto Show. Looks like it is as least as strong as Viper GTS. The Viper GTS has rollbar exemption for Silverstate race as does NSX.This is what I'm trying to get for the Gallardo.
Thanks Mitch. Actually the door pillars are VERY broad in reality. Mitch do you have an automotive engineering background? I appreciate your input whatever the case.
I don't know. I'm not an engineer, but I have a degree in common sense and I don't see enough crash support, expecially with such sloped pillars.
I am not an automotive engineer, however, I am an engineer (electrical) and have taught myself structural engineering (sufficient to build large telescopes), and hung around race cars for 35 years. I have seen real roll cages (e.g. F355 challenge) taken out and scrapped for improper strength of materials reasons, then rebuilt with better tubes and installed better (welding) with the whole chassis triangluated and joined to the roll cage structure all while making the entire structure/car lighter and stiffer. The struts indicated in the figure are A) too thin, B) spot welded, C) not triangulated, D) with square corners (a big no-no). To qualify as a roll protecting structure the top box would have to be triangulated (its now rectangular) and the support structures triangulated and made of the right stuff, and constructed correctly. The door frame area looks unsupported for crash applications, and the door to door (dash)structure is lacking. It would help a lot to see the door structure and the latching mechanism. Nor are the rear suspension loads at the chassis properly triangulated into the rest of the chassis in my opinion. At best a 3/4 arse effort in the chassis. The F355 is better (also in my opinion).
Actually you sit SO LOW in the car that the huge stress risers ( right behind your shoulders) should do the rollover protection. At least that will be my argument. Looking at the Viper Gts CAD renderings I don't think those cars should be exempt from the rollbar requirement either. Additionally the CG of this car is much lower than the Viper GTS. should
Yes but that isn't the issue. I've never seen a 360 in Silverstate above 140 tech speed. The one yellow 360 coupe I've seen there a couple of times enters 125 target speed class...Ho Hum..... BORING!!!(for me) But at least this gentleman in his 60's DRIVES HIS FERRARI!! I'll give him that!
In general I don't think you want to have a bad shunt/rollover in any of these cars, esp. without a massive safety cage and proper belts and fire systems. I'd also worry about fuel systems that aren't fuel cells. Proper race cars are one thing but street versions of any of these cars would be bad in a major accident. Two were killed in a TR that went off at the Silverstate but the driver of a 350Z with a proper cage survived a big crash and roll over last year. One thing if you go racing have these things done by someone who knows what they are doing. Bad safety equip. is worthless.
Agree with all you say.Obviously the more safety equipment the better and I feel certain that if A viper GTS rolled the so-called integral rollbar would be a joke. The factory rollcage I had put in my 996TT was the ticket. Too bad Lamborghini doesn't even make a nice rollcage or at Least a rollbar. The factory definitely was not helpful in my quest to run the Gallardo in this event. The US rep said "this is the event in which a doctor's wife was killed in a Ferrari and everyone was sued.!" Lamborghini doesn't want to go there.
Another case of the American legal system ruining the fun for everyone. It seems to be invading Australia too, where soon you will be able to sue somebody if you accidentally poo your pants instead of passing wind What is the world coming too ... ?, pathetic. The new generation are being brought up to dodge responsibility! Pete
