Avoid the Garage queens!

Lets Bracket the period of time Between 1996 and 2002...market down
Lets Bracket the period of time between 2003 till 2004...market up
lets look at the period of time pre 1987..........market down
Lets Look at the bracket of time 1987 till 1990...market up
Lets Bracket Barrett jackson auctions and the rise in interest in both market
up periods and the lack of interest in the periods before those 2 brackets.
What we have here is history repeating itself, I believe we are entering a period of time where no excuse collector cars are on the verge of appreciating at historical rates.In 1988 I purchased an 84 boxer for $90,000.00 and sold it 8 months later for 160,000.00.Lets face it did you ever expect a mass produced 67 427 corvette to sell at auction for over 200 big ones.All american muscle cars will be out of site shortly, and must bring the balance of collector cars up with them. Amer. muscle cars do nothing for me so I will sit contently with this beautiful Ferrari, but If I;m right it will happen soon, If not I have plenty of free mileage to catch up on....

Life is Short, Use your instincts!

 

Let's say you own a properly refurbished 98-100 point daytona spyder and your main desire is to enter the car is concours events. How do you keep the car in that condition both mechanically and cosmetically? Can you enjoy driving the car on sunny Sunday mornings and win Best of Show as well?

 

msdesign.....

Fair enough....you're speculating.....so I understand what you are saying, and do not disagree at all with your analysis, except for the "perceived" amount of appreciation you might be expecting to materialize in 24 months or whatever time period.....as opposed to what I am assuming will occur in this marketplace.

I doubt we'll see another 1988-90 market rise or anything similiar.......Enzo can only die once.

Regardless......great car you've got there......one that I know you'll enjoy......so may TR's continue to marginally drop in my favor as your's hopefully appreciates......because I am still 12 months away from buying mine.

 

My personal experience echos your sentiments exactly; I couldn't agree more.
2-1/2 years ago I bought my 328GTS with 7K miles (average mileage was 'bout 500 miles/year up to this point). The car had all the service records, had been serviced for many years by Ferrari of Washington (from whom I bought the car), had just had a major service by FoW (belts,etc.) immediately prior to my purchase, and came with a comprehensive 12 month warranty. I considered it a 'no risk' purchase, and this has proven to be the case. I'm ecstatic that the previous 2 owners didn't drive it. Good for me, I get to put all the miles on it! Based on my experience with this car, I don't feel one can make a blanket statement to avoid garage queens. Then again, perhaps the 500 miles/year it got prior to my ownership takes it out of the 'garage queen' category.

 

The TR is being groomed for shows since it draws a crowd to our booth. The 951 Porsche is DEAD because of sitting to long. Blowing Black Smoke. The 1980 Vette will de finished for SHOW & GO type of events. The Rolls is just the tytpical English Oil leaker but is also a show car. In response to your statement if you are willing to do a 2 or 3 day cleaning on a car to get it ready for best of show sure you can drive it. My dad always drove his cars to shows and won Best in show many times in CCCA and ACD type meets.
Take Care
George P.

 

Isnt That the way most men want it! What are mistress's For?????????????

 

Quite frankly, I do not know how you can actually put lots of mileage on a Ferrari. They are not appropriate or happy just doing every-day, around-town, stop-go duties. Since it took me such an effort to obtain my Ferrari, I can not bring myself to treat it like just any ol' car and subject it to typical weather/parking lot abuse. So, I don't commute in it - that leaves joy rides and occasional road trips. If you are busy and have other cars competing for spare-time attention, it must be quite an effort to rack of the mileage reported on FChat.

 

"There is a queen in my Garage. 1984 512 boxer, 2000 original miles. Thats 100 miles a year for 20 years....just enough to keep it in shape..."

Is this some kind of Zen thing?

 

Just my two cents, if you are going to buy a queen, leave it as one. Don't put any fluids in the car IF it is going to be also a concours queen, there isn't any sense in letting unused fluids in the car if you aren't going to drive it, plus you won't have to worry about "maintaining" unused fluids. A car can't leak if it doesn't have anything to leak. But then your engine will rust inside without a good assembly lube throughout the garage & concours queen. Trailer the thing when you want to show it. A true queen should not be driven, but only looked at. This thread is getting pretty absurd anyways, so what the heck with another absurd comment.

 

Couldn't agree with you more Martin - I picked up my 360 with 1500 miles on it in October. It's now got 9000 on it. And the clutch is only 45% worn too, which amazed me for an F1 box. People are continually surprised at that (including Maranello) - which gets to me.

I don't understand the logic in garage queening - you go out and spend a shedload of cash on a supercar... and then... don't drive it... WTF?

I thought it wasn't that easy to disconnect the speedo these days - something to do with airbag warning? Or are you referring to the earlier cars?

Cheers
Paul

 

Hi Dale,

Lets turn the question around. When purchasing a Ferrari why buy the one with higher miles? If the lower mile car is priced well and all services are completed then, why not? Purchasing a higher mile car typically means more owners, more expensive services and decreased value. If you purchase a Ferrari with above average miles and retain ownership for a few years or accumulate an additional 10-15K miles it maybe very difficult finding a buyer.

 

Sure all things being equal, I'd go the lower mileage car. But they rarely are.

Let's try this:

Door number 1: A F40 with 300 miles on the clock for $375,000, i.e., the Reggie Jackson car

Door number 2: A F40 with 13,000 miles that has been maintained by Roland Linder (BTW, I am making this up) for $295,000.

Which car would you buy?

Me, I'd go for Door number 2.

 

You have been trying to justify high mileage Ferraris on this site for years!

Low-mileage ferrari trade at higher prices since the mileage service costs are high and the fit/finish quality of Ferrari does not stand-up to high mileage. Especially many late model ferraris, which become rattle boxes.

Low-mileage ferraris need almost as much preventative maintenace as high mileage ferraris.

The market is not dumb: a 30k miles 1997 355 spider can be had for $85k and the same spider with 5k will set up back about $100k

 

I guess some of us are arguing that the market is dumb.
And if so, understanding that can be worth a lot.

 

Since service facilities do not change their hourly rate or parts prices relative to a vehicles mileage.....could you explain the relevance of this statement here ?

Based on this quote (which I disagree with...GQ's "usually" will cost more) I'd willingly pay less for a higher mileage car if given the choice. Which is my intent anyways when the time comes.

 

I bought in '99 a 88 TR and it had 9,000+ miles from a Ferrari dealer with the 15,000 mile service done before me picking it up, the first year it went to the dealer a lot for little things, the car was always reliable and was my daily driver, it never left me stranded or gave me real problems. Two years later I did the 30,000 mile service and it was a little over $12,000 and the another $3,500 for the clutch. They told me the reason for the high amount for the service was because the car was a garage queen before I bought it, but other than that it is an everyday driver.

 

This is one of the most ludicrous statements that I have read on here since I joined. Do you even own a Ferrari?

 

Yea, what crap - the 'fit and finish' of my 308 is, in many ways, better than the 'fit and finish' of my daily driver Ford Ranger - and the Ranger is 12 years newer. The only real reason why many owners don't drive their Ferraris daily to get groceries or commute to work is because they choose not to - but the car is capable.

 

Interesting thread - stated another way, which of the following TR's would you guys buy - a low miles TR or a higher Miles 512TR, links from Martin's site:

The prices are not identical, but I think they are close enough to make the comparison:

http://www.miamioffices4rent.com/cavallino/invent/4_22_04512tr.htm

or

http://www.miamioffices4rent.com/cavallino/invent/12_24_richard.htm

 

Isn't anyone going to take a shot at this one?

 

That is a good price for the 512 - I would take the 512TR all day long!

 

Dale....

I'd take the 13K car in a heartbeat.

 

low mileage Ferraris that are maintained properly of course exceed high mileage Ferraris that are maintained properly, for obvious reasons. However, many low mileage Ferraris are not maintained properly, and some high mileage ones are not either.

So buy the one you think is the best value for your money and enjoy !!!!

 

My point is that you typically have to pay a large premium for a very low miles car. For example, I have heard of people paying over $70K for a 328 with less than 1,000 miles. A comparable 328 with higher mileage might go for $50K.

Is the $20k premium worth it?

In IMHO, the answer is no unless you are buying the car as an investment. Yes, a car is original only once. And yes, I have no doubt that a 328 with 300 miles on it will become rarer and rarer each passing year. So as an investment the 300 mile car may provide a good return. But, but... if you put any miles at all on the car, you can kiss your $20k premium goodbye.

Even worse, you get into this preservation mentality where you can't make any changes to the car because, "It's only original once."

How do I know this? I once had a 1973 911 that had less than 18k miles on it. Great car, but I had to sell it because everytime I drove it, I knew that each ding and bump was ruining the car.

To each his own, eh?

 

Dale.....

I agree. No question there.

My take is that they all cost the same to repair......whether they are driven or not.....people forget this.....so you might as well pay a lot less and get the same enjoyment out of it......and it doesn't matter if you are a concours guy/investment buyer or a daily driver buyer.......at the end of the day your wallet will be just as light from the inevitable service bills or the depreciation at resale if it has not been serviced.

Ultra-low mileage concours cars are a financial trap in more ways than one......unless they are an "extremely rare and desirable" example coupled with a unique racing or ownership history......like a fellow F-Chatters "Shah of Iran" Muira for example.