Damaged my 308 - Total Loss, For Sale - Positive Experience with State Farm

Fellow F-Chatters,

This is a bit emotional to post, but here goes--I'll keep it short. I've been rather inactive on F-chat this past month dealing with an incident I had in the 308.

One month ago, I lost traction on the back wheels of my 78 308 turning at an intersection, and hit a curb. It's amazing the damage one curb can do. Nobody else was around, noone was involved, and I was fine (this was all of 15mph).

Needless to say, this was my first F-car (won't be the last), and after almost two years of maintenance, upgrades, and restoration, much at the help of the F-chat community, I wanted to share its fate, and also a good lesson.

First, the business. I retained the salvage on the car and it is now for sale. It will need some body work but is quite repairable and it would make sense, if someone were so inclined, for someone to capitalize on the $45,000 in maintenance, service, upgrades, and restoration that have gone into the car in the past 20,000 miles. It's currently up on FerrariAds.com (http://www.ferrariads.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=1401&query=retrieval), and also eBay Motors (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2476281393&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:MT:1).

Although I am saddened to have done the damage that I did to my 308, I am optimistic that it can be saved.

Now for the lesson: I was insured through State Farm. This was a regular policy, where a total loss settlement would be based on a determination that State Farm makes of "Actual Cash Value," kind of like a real-deal "market value" on what it would take to replace the car. This is where you can get burned, in the event of a total loss, especially if you have a truly "Excellent" example of one of these cars. So many cars are out there with stories, hidden damage that noone tells you about, no documentation, no records, etc. and these are the 308s that go for cheap (but won't be so cheap in the long run!). Naively, they may take the average of these lower end 308s and use that as the basis for your settlement. Well, I wasn't going to have it.

I figured that, to prevent this from happening, what you have to convincingly educate the insurance people. So I proactively drafted a 14 page document where I state, very clearly, that this 308 is an excellent example and "Here's Why." This thing read like my Master's Thesis. I included a references section in the end, and referenced those in various points in the document. I basically pointed out that it was bought from a dealer, had all of the records, had all of the required service, has significant "restoration" items. I included all my service records, as well as the previous appraisals the car had undergone. I included a bunch of past titles to show a chain of "Actual Mileage" on the car. (This just helps reduce uncertainty.) I tabulated all of the maintenance bills. Then, I went to Walgreens and printed 75 digital photographs I had of the car when I first acquired it, establishing a baseline condition, visually. Finally, I notarized the whole package.

In the end, I was successful in demonstrating the true value of the car to State Farm, and prevented an inappropriately low settlement.

The settlement came through today; the check has been made. This has been an emotional, exhausting month, but I feel like I've made it through OK.

I've learned a few things that I wanted to share. The first is, yes, these cars *are* insured. I feel horrible for damaging an otherwise excellent example of Enzo's creations, but these are cars. They are special cars, but cars nonetheless. They are finite machines, that can be repaired. It is not the end of the world. I'm wiser now than I was before.

Fast forward to today. Now I'm looking for a 328, and would appreciate any leads on a no stories (well... no bad stories) 328.

And of course, a complete service history is required!

Thanks to the FerrariChat community for being part of the ownership experience for these past few years... Looking forward to a new round of it.


--Mike Procopio
Owner, 1978 308 GTS, Total Loss Vehicle, Now for Sale
Looking for a 328

FerrariAds.com Ad:
http://www.ferrariads.com/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=1401&query=retrieval

eBay Motors Ad:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2476281393&ssPageName=ADME:B:LC:MT:1

 

Mike
I feel for you, but it doesn't look too bad - why not fix it yourself?
Kind Regards
John

 

Yes I cannot understand. I would not have even made a claim and just fixed it. All it appears to need is 2 wheels and a bit of a tidy up ... piece of cake. Maybe it would need new wheel bearings but 15 km/h hit is nothing!

Anyway your call, but that is hardly a damaged car!

Pete

 

Well, it's funny how the damage can propogate. There's a front left wheel bearing, and of course the front air dam. The rear left wheel is bent in a bit, apparently a suspension piece is affected. The radiator got pushed up, and affected the condensor as well. The radiator pushed up into the hood bonnet. And there is, naturally, some degree of frame damage that has to be addressed.

It's quite repairable. Things moved a bit fast on the insurance side of things, as you might imagine. When I first looked at what happened (I drove the car back to my garage--car was definitely driveable), I estimated the damage to be more than the deductible. Because I took pictures of the intersection, and there was another accident there at the time and traffic was detoured, I am making the case that there were additional factors into the traction loss so I don't expect my rates to go up. Because of this, I went ahead and made the claim.

Well, State Farm is apparently very risk averse with these repairs. Between the mechanic (Jim's Fine Cars in Albuquerque, NM), the alignment shop, and the body shop--none of whom would really put down a firm figure on their part of the repair--State Farm saw a very "open-ended" repair cost. That combined with my up-front, documented insistance that the car was immaculate at the time of the collision, and that nothing but perfect repairs were considered acceptable by me, I think their risk management folks took one look at the case and decided to declare the car a total loss. I kept the car for salvage value.

Part of the issue was the lack of authorized Ferrari repair in Albuquerque, and I also expressed that I was concerned that their "local" body shops would not do an adequate job in the repair. This, combined with my letting them know of my high standards, led to the total loss situation.

I've never made an insurance claim before, and don't know if I "played" things right or not. In general, the settlement was fair, and I see it as an opportunity to keep some of the equity I've put into the car and move up the Ferrari line.

 

Sorry to hear about this, but you're right about most insurance companies are not equipped to perform specialty automotive repair estimates. I wrote an estimate last year for a 77 308 GTB for visual damage of $6500.00. The client drove into a cinder block & dragged it under the car. The worst part of it that the car was then driven home then to the repair shop. This caused the head gasket to blow due to the lack of coolant from the damaged radiator. Add another $6000.00 + for pulling the engine repairing the damaged head. Lesson learned the hard way, but the car was saved due to the low miles & going back & forth with the insurance company, the mechanic, & the customer. I think it was around 10,000 miles if I’m not mistaken.

Be thankful, it could have been alot worse.

Good luck

 

How much would it cost to get the car driving again?

Im looking for a Ferrari (308 GT4) in the 18k and below price range...but if I could fix this car and buy it for less than 18k it would be a deal!!

 

Mike, you have a PM coming!

 

MIKE PM SENT CALL ME ASAP WHEN YOU READ THIS 912 441 2637. michael morett, savannah ga. i can / will send cash today . have the tensioners bearings and fuel lines been done? were the valves adjusted???? i work on business jets , but i wll try to leave my cell phone on in the hangar this morning. i have free long distance and can call you on my dime when you are awake.

 

Wow, seems like you have offers in already!

I am interested, you aren't too far from me here in LA/OC CA area.

I have been contemplating a 308, and Byron showed me one on Sunday, during the local breakfast meet.

I personally love fixer uppers, my current car is an example of that - a 1983 944 N/A. All that's left is for me to replace the clutch master cylinder & slave, stick a stereo in her, replace the headlight pop up moter (have that) along with rewiring, and then I can finally paint her.

She also, was an insurance claim. No structural damage, just electrical and some moron tossed brake fluid on the hood, and it ate it off down to the galvanized metal. Frame straight as can be. Best of all, the lightest 944, and pretty perky for a 21 year old car! I have done most of the repair work myself, and with help from a friend who has taken several of these apart.

But I think whoever buys her off you will take care of her, and drive!

- Julie

 

I'm curious.
How did you get to retain the car after collecting from insurance?

 

i'm curious too. did you agree to cut them back some base set of dollars on the sale of it? why would they let you have the car back if they wrote you a total loss check?

doody.

 

Guys,
I've done this with State Farm also..............what probably happened is this. They figured out a 100% total loss. If you accept that check you give them the car..........or you can take 80% of that amount and you keep the car...........not too uncommon at all.

 

Good to know that she will be resurrected! (given the interest already in your wounded beauty)

 

I've been told that it is the legal right (at least in this State) for the owner to retain salvage rights on a total loss car. Meaning the owner of the car has first rights to buy back what is left of the car after his/her insurance company determines it to be a total loss. This is usually a percentage of the value (I don't remember what it is right now).

 

Ooops, a correction. Just talked to a friend at State Farm and it is NOT based on a set percentage. It is based on recent salvage auction prices.

 

Sorry about your car, man. You should get yourself another, though. You obviously enjoy them very much.

edit: Oh hell man! I just looked at your ebay ad. That car is a STEAL at $12k! Considering all the work you've done you may want to seriously consider bringing it back yourself.

 

Dave....

Congratulations on dealing effectively with the insurance company. Your example could serve as a model to others. With real estate it's "location, location, location"....with cars it's obviously "documentation, documentation, documentation"....

Sorry about your loss.....good luck in the search for a replacement.

 

Hi guys,

Thanks for the interest, and also the insight. I am currently investigating a number of offers on the car. The response is encouraging.

Regarding salvage, yes, State Farm provided a "salvage value" that they got from a special department, which I can presume was based on recent salvage auction prices. Because I knew the car was worth more than the salvage, and I REFUSED to see it go the route of getting chopped up and whatever else they do with it, I exercised my option to retain salvage and have done so.

Julie, cool story about the 944! In the hands of people who care, cars can be brought back to better than they were before--and CERTAINLY better than the "average" exmaple--of that I'm convinced.

Solopist, your cinder block story is a great reference point. I am fortunate, it could have been a lot worse--I was luck to have been 0.5mi / 2 minutes from my garage! So the engine temps were not an issue. I definitely agree though, these cars are rare enough that shops of all sorts have a difficult time putting a range on the price. Because whoever does work on the car at the body shop / alignment shop / some mechanics / etc. will probably be doing the work for the FIRST time, they have to budget that cushion into an already fuzzy estimate. Combined with my extensive history of the vehicle, my insistence to be VERY involved in the process, and my UP FRONT setting of expectations that I required perfection in repair and would not be satisfied with 90%, you can see why their risk analysis folks said to call it a loss. The car is most definitely able to be brought back, though.

Keep in mind the damage is more than you can see in the photos, though: there is frame damage, and likely some suspension damage in the front left and right (although the car starts / drives OK, w/ no radiator coolant). The front end hood got damaged when the radiator bumped up into that. So paint will be involved, too. That said, this was a slow speed impact and the "cascading effect" was probably limited to the obvious.

I agree, the car where it's priced is very good buy--FOR the right person. I and the previous owners have taken care of the traditional 308 things that go--fuel pump, alternator, fuse box, clutch, brake calipers, carburetors, etc. If you've been following my threads, though, this car is having a 3rd gear syncro issue (EVERYONE's 308s are going to have this issue SOONER or later) and needs it replaced. (I'm including the 2nd and 3rd gear syncro rings with the car, which I bought new from T. Rutlands but haven't installed yet). So the engine needs to be pulled for this to happen, but otherwise it's a straightforward job (been documented on FerrariChat, in fact!)

The history of this car, starting when I got it, is basically public domain. I've essentially discussed all the work done on the car on FerrariChat, so everyone's on the same page (literally).

The car is most definitely repairable, and we all know what needs to be done to it, and what HAS been done to it. If I can be so frank, I've spent the past month pricing 308s, and 90% of them are ratty, full of bad stories, and just plain misrepresented. This car, even with a Salvage Title and in need of the transmission repairs and body/suspension work, STILL represents less risk. If you buy a regular old 308 for $30k, on average, it will be $45k before its really ready to go (at least by my standards). Period!

So I'm selling for a number of reasons. I'm presonally ready to move up to a 328. State Farm has given me a fair settlement on my 308. Sometimes, you're ready to move on--and that's where I'm at. I remain very close to my 308 and will enjoy watching its restoration on FerrariChat!

--Mike

 

Darn the hard luck!!

I'm with State Farm on a "Stated Value" policy, the only way to avoid all your hard work on documentation.

I sent a PM on a beautiful Red Tan 328GTS, I saw yesterday.

See ya!

 

Kds, thanks for your note. Yes, I feel that things worked out very well with the insurance company. These things ya know, they never work out "well"--but this worked out "fair" in my opinion, where many insurance settlements do not. Bottom line is, be proactive, take a logical, justified, firm, active stance towards the settlement and I think there is room for movement on these things. In this particular case, State Farm needed to be convinced that a $20k 78 308 is NOT the same $30k 308 and here's why.

Regarding stated value--that's definitely one way to do it, and I may investigate doing that. It probably costs more, but is substantially less risk. Something I will investigate for my 328!

 

I'm pleased to announce that the car has been sold this morning to Michael Morett ("thecarreaper") .

I'm filled with delight to have been able to pass this car on to somebody in the community, and look forward to watching it come back to perfect!

I'll keep everyone posted with the 328 research... Thanks guys for your help and thoughts on what has been quite an emotional trip this past month.


Keep the Forza alive,

Mike Procopio
Albuquerque, NM

 

why bother with a stated value insurance policy or bother with any of the major insurance carriers that just don't understand or care about these cars. When I asked my Allstate agent who covers my regular drivers if it would be worth switching over my 308 from Hagerty to get everything under one roof...she said "don't even think of it, it will be a headache if you make a claim"

mike, I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Will your car have a salvage title now? Its a shame if it will, since it really isn't what I'd consider a "totaled" car.

 

What a shame, This is another example of a beautiful Ferrari that is not damaged very severerly, but will end up with the stigma of a salvage title.

I am glad to hear you did reach a satisfactory resolution with the ins. co..

I would be curious as to the value the ins. co placed on the car, since it is well documented and obviously in very good condition.
The present asking price index in FML is right at the $30k mark which most
members of this board see as being notoriously higher than the true mkt.

Well any way Mike I do think someone who is willing to do the repairs on this
308 themselves will end up with a nice Ferrari.

Good Luck!! Chuck

 

You were mentioning your trans was going out, loss of 2nd gear + others a while back, did you fix it?

 

Congrats to Carreaper!!!!