a few pictures from the dyno day...

Pics are nice but results would be nicer.

 

Thanks for sharing the pictures. Sorry I missed this but had an M5 dyno meet today as well. Glad to see you guys had fun and got up to KTR. It looks like the photgrapher was infatuated with one particular car...I wonder why. I know a ballpark figure has been posted but what did everyone specifically run?

 

enjoythemusic is going to post results - he was collecting printouts of each car for scanning and posting.

i had to skip out just before dan360's CS went up.

had a LOT of fun - very educational, and superb people, as usual. and a most tasty lunch - thanks prova!

doody.

 

Yes, pics with RESULTS are online at http://www.enjoythemusic.com/dynoday0504/

MANY MANY thanks to EVERYONE for coming. Was a GREAT time and we all owe Kenny a HUGE thanks for lunch. THANKS KENNY!!!

WARNING: Saturday, July 10 -- Steve's Birthday bash: steak, toasted garlic rolls, fresh corn on the cob, etc etc etc

And yes, have a new patio set so no more sitting on the floor to eat

PS: i think the Lambo and Stradale were the loudest cars... but am flabbergasted how ferociously LOUD the 308 i drive is.

 

questions:

why did they only do two runs on the stradale when most of the other cars did 3 (or even more if they were fettling the setup)?

why was prova's tr more "all over the map", relativley speaking, than the other cars? and on the same note, it's WAY impressive how tight the two CS runs were!

doody.

 

fyi - here's my runs aggregated and photoshopped up for clarity.

max horsepower was 368 and max torque was 307.

the guy who ran the dyno was a neat guy. he seemed to know everything about every dyno - i think this was his fourth dyno operator job or something like that. i believe he used to work for Autothority, he said. anyway, he said that a DynoJet will read about 20% higher numbers than what the Dyno Dynamics will read.

when queried about drivetrain loss, an individual intimate with the dyno suggested that each car is different and there aren't any absolutes without pulling the block and testing it at the crank, but ferrari's 485 (or whatever htey quote for the 550) number is a very aggressive theory - it's probably more like "mid 400s" at the crank.

doody.

 

A few runs were with the stock filter, then a few with K&N. i forget why he said they were very iffy, think the TR car itself has a "problem" with ??bad gas?? or ???


As for the 360 CS, VERY tight car for EVERYTHING. Dan must be a VERY happy man (and his wife who drives it too).

 

My all over the map was due to a couple of things. I threw in a K&N on pull 4 and saw a 6hp increase over pull 1 which was the best with the stock filter. And also over 6 ft/lbs in torque over the paper filter. Despite what all the K&N naysayers spout, I must say that it works very well in a Tr application. 6hp and ~8 ft/lbs at the wheels is flat out impressive for a filter change. Other things that may be contributing factors are air/fuel mixture not optimized, tired plugs and/or Sh*tty gas.

I had a helleva day. Many, many, many thanks to Steve for sponsoring this day. It was a pleasure to meet you. As doody put it, great people, very educational and some good laughs to boot. It was an outstanding day. A whole lotta fun!!

And cruising up and back with a Diablo VT roadster to the south shore didn't suck either

And doody... nice avatar !

Kenny K.

 

Steven -- sorry I missed this, but the nasty Boston roads laid waste to a shock bushing and the car was down this morning.

Doody -- are those numbers corrected or uncorrected? I don't see SAE, so I'm assuming uncorrected? No a/f ratio or anything? I wonder what the Ferrari tune is like from the factory...

So who was the king of hp?

On a seperate note, is anybody doing any track days? First day of the season for me is 24th @ NHIS.

-N

 

Well guys, today I had quite the good day. On the way there I saw Kenny and Mark in there cars going to the event which was awesome. Then we got lost and saw you guys at the grocery store and followed you there. Mark, THANK YOU SO MUCH! Your Diablo was really really nice. You certainly were right about saying you cant even compare it to a 355 and pretty much all other Ferraris. I found it very strange that it handled the bumps just as good as my dads Lexus or even better! It was also really comfortable, which I wasnt expecting. I had a great time. My ears are still hurting from that Stradale though. That valve that opens up at 4500RPM was pretty scary the first time it happend. Also, thanks to Steven for organizing the whole thing (my friend loved your car). I was suprised that your 308 was so loud, it was shaking the floor! Thats alot of noise coming from a little 3.0 liter engine. Did anyone else see the showroom their? There was the almighty 250 GTO in there, it was great! The guys there said its the only original unrestored 250 GTO remaining in the whole world. It was great to see you all again, I think everyone had a great experience. Thanks to everyone again!
PS- Are you all going to be at Larz Anderson in Brookline on the 23rd?

 

i'm no dyno expert, so i can't speak to "correct" numbers. what i do know is that the dyno dynamics dynamometer collects a wealth of data about the car, the environment, gear ratio, etc. and produces "the number". i was told that if i took my car the next day to japan an dput it on a properly set up dyno dynamics dynamometer it would spit out an effectively identical report since all the factors, like environment, are being adjusted for in the software.

but the printout doesn't include any clarifying information in this regard. maybe KTR's page on the dyno has some datt? http://www.ktrmotorsports.com/

also, shame on everybody for not mentioning the 1962 250 GTO. i didn't get any snaps of it 'cuz i'm apparently an idiot. i don't know what SN it is. RHD, red over black. it is supposedly raced frequently. someone said they thought it might be the last unrestored example. the paint was truly intriguing - forty years later.

someone post pics, please!

doody.

 

Pics are on there way! I only took about 100 of it though... Shame on me. The interior was very nice looking for being 40 years old

 

Always glad to meet up with my friends and throw a party. Alas, my age is showing as the police no longer come to break them up That GTO is amazing. One of my friends in Florida has one and loves it. He worked for the factory years ago.

Yes, the lil 308 here does roar (or should that be ROAR?)! The sound while shifting through the gears is, eh hem, erotic. Is it the Ferrari lover or audiophile in me??? Who knows? Who cares! OH YEAH BABY, YEAH!!! Did it make you randy? ;-)

Alas, can't make the 23rd as i have business to attend to Please send everyone my best during the event.

 

Doody,

Perhaps KTR can send you a complete data file of all the parameters during your runs??? Should be possible?????

 

That should be no problem as the guys told me that all the data is stored and all's they have to do is punch in your car and they can print it all. I plan on doing just that.

Kenny

 

Hey Steven,
Thanks again for throwing such a great get together. I'm sorry I was late, but glad I could make it. I didn't even get in too much trouble when I got home late!

Doody, sorry I missed you. That was me you passed as you were heading out through downtown Ayer.

I was extremely disappointed to find out just how badly out of tune my carbs are. My dyno run was so bad it was embarassing. On the flip side, now I have something to compare it to once I get the carbs rebuilt and tweaked right. Knowing how poorly the car is running, I was hesitant to even put it on the dyno, but I decided it would be educational, and so it was. My car was misfiring so badly below 3500 RPM that you have to just ignore that part of the chart. On the plus side, I got to check out a nearly identical 308 to mine (carbs) at KTR and they took me out for a drive to give me a feeling for what mine should feel like. (I have some tuning to do!) Any Weber experts on the list?

Mark, thanks for the incredible 0-100-0 ride in the Diablo. Holy **** that thing is fast and sticks to the ground like glue. That was one of the most impressive displays of acceleration/deceleration that I have ever witnessed from within a car. I think my eyeballs popped loose from the sockets when you hit the brakes. Damn! Wow! Gotta get me one o' them Lambo thingies someday!

The issue with Kenny's TR was that on some of the runs, the car was acting as if the detonation detector was pulling the timing. Since that car probably doesn't have detonation detection, the techs at KTR felt that there was an issue with either spark plugs, gaps, or gas quality, that was causing issues at higher RPMs.

It was great to see you all again and let's do something again soon!

Birdman

 

Thanks again to Steve for organizing - it was great fun. Particularly amusing to hear the huge difference between the CS with the exhaust flap closed and open.

A couple of interesting stats (factory/dyno/loss):
Doody 485 368 24.1%
Dan 409 301.5 26.3% (see other threads on F-chat for the 409 vs 425 debate - essentially the publicity says 425 but both the Euro and US owners manuals say 409)

The guy running the dyno said that the one they have is very predictable but does show numbers in my case probably 20-30hp below what another dyno might show - a driveline loss of 20% is not unusual. They also ran on another day a stock 360 which did 311 on their dyno. So I'm guessing that my car is still somewhat tight since it only had 603 miles on it when it rolled onto the Dyno - run-in ending according to the owners manual at 600. I'll try another run there once I've got a few K on it.

Looks like I might make it down to FoNE today since my wife has taken the kids out and won't be back till 2! Hooray a double F-car day weekend - just off to wash it.

Dan

 

AMEN! Wonderful sound and a good idea. There are times i wish the car could "tip-toe" past the police. You can and still go, i generally drop the 308 into neutral to "glide past" them.

Dan, you are indeed a very fortunately man!

 

Steven,

Thank you for a great event.

 

From what I understand, the general rule of thumb is to use SAE "corrected" numbers. Since factors such as temp, humidity and elevation can increase/decrease (think about dynoing in Denver on a hot humid day) your output, the Society of Auto. Engineers (SAE) has correction formulas that take your raw output and correct it to a "standard" day at sea level. This means that, in theory, you should get the exact same numbers if you dyno in the middle of a hot July in Baton Rouge, or crisp December in Denver. For us Vette guys, it helps us talk smack to the TX guys who always seem to have insanely 1/4 times and hp numbers

I bet your numbers were corrected, which means your raw hp was probablly higher! Very nice indeed...now let's get that beast to a track

-N

 

250 GTO S/N 3647. Apparently it is real, and owner Sandra McNeil races it frequently. How lovely! That's how I picture my life.

There was a nice variation of cars at KTR that I'm sure you all noticed; a cream XK120 droptop (owned by Gwyneth Paltrow's uncle) plus a rust/red coupe (a rough racer), 2 original Cobras (one was upstairs), Bob Gett's Lambo 400 GT, the Cunningham.

Did anyone else get a tour of the upstairs? Gary (my true love) and I got a look, and there was a fantastic assortment of vintage motorcycles (Ducatis, MV Agustas), an E series Jag, vintage racing Lotus 7's, lots and lots of interesting car and motorcycle parts (a Porsche C2 engine from a crashed car). KTR puts the vehicles on a special pallet, and then on a fork lift to move them up and down from the second level. Very cool.

Interesting side note: Gary and I and our three kids were out in AZ two weeks ago on vacation (Sedona, Grand Canyon, Phoenix, etc.). The Copperstate Rally was going on, so of course we packed up and drove 80 mountainous roads (in an Excursion) to meet them for lunch. Our kids are so used to this.

The cars at the rally were delightful; Ferraris galore, Porsches, Corvettes, an Aston Martin, a 1927 Bentley, some Jags, and a 1970 Maser Ghibli Spyder that caught my eye. I noticed it had MA plates. We chatted with various drivers, but I lingered near the Maser. I heard my name, and it's Bob Gett's lovely wife, with whom I've played tennis. She and Bob own the car and it's their second year in the Copperstate. Small world! I can post pics if you like.

Suzy

 

Steven,
Thanks for a great day! Lots of fun, plus it was great finally meting the other Fchat members at last!

SADNESS
Among the cars at the back of the KTR lot was a carcass of an '58 XK150 fixed head coupe. (The white over green one with the rear about 4' up in the air for those who were there.) I took a close look at it as my 1st sports car was the same year & model. I was greatly saddened /dismayed to discover that this car was in fact the same vehicle whose engine I had rebuilt, and whose body & interior I had spent most of the summer of '68 restoring & carefully hoarding every spare cent I could scrounge to pay for spraying it with 5 coats of hand-rubbed acrylic lacquer!

According to KTR, the car had been recovered from a barn that had collapsed on it & crushed the roof in. Apparently the barn's roof had been leaking on it for years because the body & bumpers had severe cases of metal cancer.

It really dampened my spirits everytime I'd look out the open doorway & see the ravaged remains of a former queen of the road.

When I'd sold the car in the summer of '75 it was in near original condition.

Not long after I'd finished the engine work, I severely humbled a 'vette on a long straight stretch of interstate in west Texas. He discovered that a 411 or so rear end is a real detrement. He was matching me shift for shift, or so he thought until he ran out of revs at 125+, the look on his face as I shifted into 4th & pulled away was priceless!

I'll always cherish the memories I have of that car when it was in it's prime. Unfortunately, now I'll also never be able to forget how neglect & the ravages of rain & time destroyed a once beautiful machine.

 

Verell,

Sorry for your "loss." For many of us, our motorcars are more than just a mix of metal, leather, paint, and fluids. They are living, breathing entities... and perhaps become a "family member." Sadly, if one decides to sell them anything can happen to our loved ones