Monkie says: Brian's CS needs bigger better wheels

Dude that is a bad ass car! The only thing I would do to it if I were you is get some 19" or 20" HRE double polished R series wheels and get a Tubi exhaust. I can't imagine how much fun you are having with that CHALLENGE STRADALE!! I didn't read all of the thread and I might have missed it but I was wondering if you plan on taking it to the track anytime? It sure is what that car is made for. Beautiful car

 

What??? The standard rims are the most beautiful I have seen on a production car in a while. Changing the rim size from 19" to 20" would only defeat the weight savings and the handeling benefits Ferrari worked so hard to perfect.

But, while you are at it maybe you should install a neon-light kit to really make the Stradale look "bad ass".

 

Ok smart ass. Do you even know how much HRE wheels weigh? They weigh next to nothing. Now I do not know how much Ferrari wheels weigh and I'm sure they don't weigh much. But the factory wheels do not look that good IMO. And what did I say that made you say "But, while you are at it maybe you should install a neon-light kit to really make the Stradale look "bad ass". " or we're you just being ******?

 

Err...

Why would he swap out a set of BBS/Speedline manufactured magnesium wheels for a set of HRE wheels? Doesn't the CS come with the forged BBS magnesium wheels- because it sure looks like it does from the pics... Forged multipiece wheels will never be as light as forged magnesium wheels...

What's so special about HRE? They are expensive... but that's about it. The BBS wheels on the CS are far more special. As far as I'm concerned the CS is a "finished" car- no need to embellish/detract upon it. Next we'll see people recommending that he install carpeting too...

 

I think it was the rim size increase to 20". Why?

If you intend to keep the same width tyre and profile thus the rolling radius will be wrong, as will the ride height and thus roll centres and all that work that Ferrari did that Brian paid a huge amount for has gone down the drain!

If you intend to lower the profile, then as we have discussed over and over and over again, and thus restore the original rolling radius and ride height you now have a less flexible tyre and the car will not handle as well. Plus can you get a lower profile anyway than the standard specified? On top of that the car will be even more uncomfortable over bumps.

This whole low profile tyre improving grip is a myth ... stiffer sidewalls improves responsiveness, wider tyres improves grip if your car can actually use all the tyre (most cars to perform best do not need as wider tyre as you think [ie. the car cannot generate enough downward pressure on the tyre to actually use all the width any way] ... remember the wider you go the heavier the wheel and thus the more unsprung weight! ... and rolling resistence, etc.), plus also wider tyres offer less grip in the wet, because of the much increased chance of aquaplaning.

So IMO, lets see we have a company that has won many F1 championships and made plenty of road cars and done pretty good at winning on the race track too with them, and we are going to ignore their thoughts and design and throw bigger wheels at it. Hmmm, probably a good idea when you are buying a GM of Ford **** box, which has not been designed at all for the track ... but come on do you think you seriously know more about suspension design and car dynamics than the Ferrari designer who specified those wheels. Ferrari understand unsprung weight I bet they have done a pretty good job at getting a light road wheel that can handle the miles.

Now Ferraris are not perfect, but I think you need to do your homework pretty well before you even think of modifying one of these ... unless you are just thinking of looks ... and that brings us back to the neon lights.

Pete

 

If anyone here says those wheels look better than a set of double polished HRE wheels then pass me whatever you are smoking! If the guy has the money for a Ferrari then I would think he could afford 2 sets of wheels and tires. So when you want the bling bling slap on the HREs and when you head to the track put on the stock wheels. And I have seen Ferrari's with 20" wheels and it looks good. Just because its 20" doesn't mean it has to be ghetto and on a SUV. You pick the size of the wheel to match the size of the car. A 360 is a big car! So 20" would not look too big on it. Thats like how 19" wheels look good on a Corvette C5. Plus, how often is this guy gonna have his Ferrari on the race track? You guys can call me whatever you want but I can assure you I'm more of performance than anyone in here with their Ferrari. (not to be disrespectful)

 

Well, to me, cars shouldn't have wagon wheels (i.e., wheels you can see through)... the wheels should be sized just big enough to fit over the brakes. And I'm not changing the brakes; so, even just for looks, I'm not changing the wheel diameter. Besides, whereas the 18" were a bit too small for the wheel wells, the 19" are perfectly proportioned, IMO. Larger would not look right.

Roughly once a week. But its not just about the track...

I like high performance on the street... and on the street is where you really need some adequate dimension to your tires. The brilliance of the Stradale handling is the combination of high performance on track as well as on bumpy undulating roads; great feel, while somehow maintaining a comfortable ride.

I'm constantly amazed on my spirited drives around the area, at how the Stradale will dance gingerly over bumps, but maintain a remarkably firm grip on the road. In my other sportscars (which are good at this in their own right), I'll wince in expectation of the jarring bump and then expect to catch the car as it slides out a foot or two from losing traction momentarily. The M3 does this less than the 911 (whose light front end tends to float); the 360 less than the M3 (amazingly); and the Stradale even less than the 360 (shockingly).

I assume its the combination of perfect suspension geometry and exceptionally light-weight unsprung parts. I have no intention of doing anything that might mess that up!!!! (track or not)

 

And while you are at it add the neon lights . BTW: bling bling is not a requirement ... and something I definitely never want in any of my cars! I don't wear white suits and do high fives everytime I meet somebody ... and tint the windows black and have the thumping stereo ... cars are for driving for me, not hanging with da mates.

Anybody that talks about bling bling AT ALL ... is not performance orientated. Bling bling has nothing whatsoever to do with performance.

You are definitely NOT more into performance than 80% of this board (not to be disrespectful) ... and especial me.

Just having a laugh ... ... but seriously, you have to be joking right!
Pete

 

So what have you done to your car? I can tell you SOME of the things I have done to mine and lets see who is more into performance. In my engine alone I have forged crank, Billet H beam rods, JE deep dish pistons, 32 valves, 4 cams, two Garrett T3/T4 hybrid turbos, 3" univer MAF, and an Accufab TB. All making 860rwhp on 110 octane. STREET CAR

Oh...and the bling bling. I have 13" cross drilled and slotted rotors, dual piston calipers, 19" HRE 547Rs (haven't put on yet), and a dark metalic blue paint with blue pearl ghost flames.

So, what have you got?

 

That doesn't make you more performance oriented.

What kind of car is it? Why do you make 860rwhp on 110 octane and not on pump? 32 valves... 4 cams... V8... perhaps a Vette? Billet H beam rods- what kind? Carillo? JE "deep dish" pistons... how does that encourage proper combustion when everything I've read indicates dished pistons having poor efficiency? 13" cross drilled and slotted rotors... not performance oriented at all... dual piston calipers- when most performance calipers are at least 4 piston... flames in the paint... again not much of a performance item- what happens when you chip it? What about your transmission? Suspension? Data acquisitions? What periodicals has your car been in to document your car- what competitions have you participated in to show your competitiveness?

It sounds like you are a drag racer. A lot of "specs" on your engine and not much thought into suspension and braking or how the package works together. What are your drag slip times? My roll caged circuit car went 11.1@129mph and 11.3@131mph on Pirelli P-Zero Rosso tires and I have a lot less power in that car than you- and that was on pump gas with a turbo from XS Engineering- now replaced by my first parts sponsor- Innovative Turbo. Give us pump gas numbers since nobody rolls around 100% of the time on race gas. I probably have more time and engineering in the suspension and braking of that car than you have in your motor and it would probably make a bunch of F-car enthusiasts sick to their stomachs how much time, effort and money I've thrown at the engine and chassis of the Nissan- yup, it's just a lowly Nissan.

 

let me tell you why you had to do all these things to your car to start with. The reason is because it isnt a ferrari. I think the forum for you is at riceburners.com

 

A Toyota Tarago people mover and an Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV that I am restoring. Both are 100% road cars and thus no need for wasted performance cr@p. Infact they are 100% dead standard and original.

I save all my performance work for my track/racing cars, but alas I am currently retired from racing. But I used to race a self built space frame club car that weighed 512 kgs and had a 200hp 1600cc motor and won the championship.

Personally, and this is just my opinion, modifying street cars is a complete waste of time because the only time you are ever REALLY racing is when the start flag (or light nowadays) drops and you are on a track ... and NO street car that is worth driving on the street does as well as an uncomfortable purpose built track car. Infact my old little club car would probably beat Brians Stradale around most race tracks, but it sure did not look anywhere near as nice and did not have a Ferrari badge, and would have sucked as a road car. Owe and the only race tracks that count are ones that have corners ... drag racing is for d!ckheads, that have not matured past my one is bigger than your one syndrome.

But then my engine builder used to say that I had a very uncompromising attitude ... and he was very happy to take money of you guys that for some reason want to get to the shops and back a little faster (if the law does not catch you first).

Each to there own ... I just cannot see the point

Pete

EDIT: I still think you are joking and just winding us up ... good on you, ya got me

 

Suddenly it has all come clear to me...I think we have a trifecta!

Monkie, is that your middle name?
And if so, is your first and last name Gary Fiedler?

 

So you are saying drag racing is for d!ckheads because its not your type of racing? Wow, its amazing how ignorant some people can be. Keep thinking what you want to think.

 

Its actually a nick name I got back in middle school and it has followed me every since.

 

Good point you make there, but in my defence I have actually competed at a club drag racing meeting once ... just to see what all the hype was about.

Lets see, my first run was a duff because I did not understand what the little water trough (sp?) was for and thus did a huge wheel spin as I had not warmed up my tyres. Yes embarrassing and completely stupid and all the experienced guys and girls must have had a good laugh ...

Never mind (as I am a person to come back and keep on trying) my next run was better as I made damn sure I fully warmed my tyres first (actually was a little fun). Then the next run was about the same time and I got bored and stopped playing and potentially harming my car ... and went home.

Yes it is amazing that they can do something like 4 seconds for covering the 1/4 mile ... but come on it pales completely in comparison to circuit racing or rally driving (including hill climbs, etc.) especially at the amature end.

The only skill is launching ... and you guys forget that the start of just about every circuit race has the same thing, a standing start that requires the same skill BUT then you have to worry about cornering and braking, etc. And I forgot you also have to worry about all the other competitors around you as you fight for the first corner ... heaps exciting and dangerous!

Personally I am amazed that you found this site, because Ferraris are NOT drag cars and suck in straight line races with many cars. Their performance comes from handling and carrying speed through corners NOT hugh torque and straight line speed.

Pete

 

Who on earth said I'm all about drag racing? Yes I've been on the strip many many more times than I've been on a race course but my Cobra isn't the only car I own. I also have a 91 MR2 turbo with complete racing suspension from front to back with coil over kit. I can assure you it will handle just as well as a Ferrari. The only thing it lacks from a Ferrari and handling is the high speed stability of a Ferrari with its wind tunnel designed body for downforce. But just because people are different with their taste from you does not mean that you should down talk them. And it sounds like you suck very bad at drag racing, maybe thats why you don't like it so much.

 

Dude...

You should probably stop posting to this thread...

Let's dissect your post-
You've been to the drag strip many times. You own a Cobra- Ford Mustang Cobra? Turbocharged? If it's not a Cobra R with the IRS, have you converted to a real rear suspension to get rid of that solid axle? You also own a 1991 MR2 turbo. I flipped one in 8 days last summer, made $3K on the flip- not bad for an $8K investment. It will NOT handle as well as a Ferrari. Not here on Earth, not on Mars, nowhere. What makes this MR2 suspension a "race" suspension? You added a set of threaded body shocks and springs? Nope, sorry, that doesn't make it a race suspension. You don't think Toyota spent millions designing the body for drag efficiency... I can assure you they did...

As for your anti-snob approach here... nobody's looking down on drag strips... just people who think that they have a leg to argue on when obviously they don't... For what it's worth- drag racing does suck when you're comparing 11+second cars...

jimpo1-

Wait a minute... Unladen swallows have radar guns now? What is this world coming to?

 

So you "flipped" a MR2 last summer (I'm taking it you mean bought and sold in 8 days) and so you drove it and it won't handle as good as a Ferrari. Well first off what kind of MR2 was it? What year, turbo or not? Well anyways my MR2 has Tein HA coil overs, TRD front and rear sway bars, 17" wheels, 13" Precision brakes big brake kit, TRD bushings, and TRD strut bars front and rear. And as much as your little heart wants to believe that your 355 would take me on a road course I can assure you it won't. You won't even pull on my 4 cylinder in a straight line. Trust me, I know my Ferraris and a 355 just alittle bit slower than a stock LS1 F-body. Oh, I don't wanna stop posting in this thread. Its fun, you guys keep throwing **** at me and I keep throwing it back.

Oh, I forgot to mention that I've driven a 355 6 speed manual tranny Ferrari before. Nice car it is.

 

Ah so the Valet parking job does have its advantages...

Try and AD to a discussion about Brian's car not hijack his thread. If you go to off topic there is a place to discuss your rice-a-roni. No offense but post this in an appropriate fashion and people will respect your opinion. but hijack a thread about one of our members (and Moderators) finally achieving a life long dream of ownership.... show some respect....

 

Its ignorant people like yourself which make me come back and reply. All that had to be said was "I don't think he would like HRE wheels, its just not his and our thing" but someone had to throw a blow at me so ofcourse I am going to come back. And no I'm not a Valet parker. Infact I am in college and I work at a construction place making $60 a day. Not bad for a part time college job. And if I were you before I would start hating on someone I would make sure that I knew how to spell first. I'm not sure what "AD" is. And why is my car "rice-a-roni"? I haven't got a body kit on the car. All I have is a set of 5 start 17" wheels because stock it came with 14" wheels. I'm really not trying to get this personal but you guys seem to want to make that happen...

Oh and the 355 is a friend's car. He let me drive it.

 

Ok here. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT BRIAN's CAR

YOU WANT TO POST ABOUT YOUR CAR GO TO OFF TOPIC AND FEEL FREE

YOU posted that you have driven a 355, good for you, post that in general ferrari discussions not in a thread dedicated to a theme.

We (most Fchat users) welcome your input but show the respect for the forum and put it in the place where (the owners) have allowed and please continue to post as opinions are welcome.

Rice a roni is a comment aimed at the fact that this area and the thread are for discussing Ferrari and in particular the 3.5 year wait and final arrival of BRIAN's car. If you would like to add to that discussion please feel free.

 

As someone already pointed out, a set of coil overs and some bushings don't make a race suspension. Just because your 17 yr-old friends who've never been on an actual track, much less have the faintest idea of what real handling is, say that coil overs, sway bars, and some bushings make a race suspension .... that doesn't make it so.

Stock for stock, a 355 would laugh uncontrollably at an MR2 on a racetrack, it would probably spit up coolant from laughing so hard. As far as your particular MR2 with it's "race suspension" ... it would still get it's ass handed to it if you were behind the wheel since you obviously don't care enough about handling and/or speed to even bother studying what goes into it much less actually work on things like technique and practice.

As far as not being able to pull on your 4 cylinder, you are absolutely correct. However, most of the speed at the track is made in the corners and on the brakes ... go look up "momentum" in the dictionary and let the idea settle for a while. A real track is a far cry from a drag strip or empty highway Einstein.

I happen to have a bit of track time in a late-model F-body and while they are quick vehicles in the right hands, they are not in the same league as a track car like a 355 or 360.

But you know what, no matter what you or I say, we're doing nothing more than bench racing right now. Here's a simple way to determine if you are correct. Follow your region's Forum here on F-Chat closely ... track season is upon us. Get thee big-cojones MR2 equipped self out to the next track day, skeedaddle around the road course, and see how you do against 355s in your Tonka race car. Remember, go as quickly as possible. HINT: If the direction in which you cross the Start/Finish line differs from 1 lap to the next ... something went wrong.

And don't come back with crap about your aching clutch, your worn tyres (you Brits can thank me now =), your turbo acting up .... nothing.

Bill in Brooklyn