"I have a 308 GT4 in the same condition as yours" I think that typically many of us have have 308s in this condition, but not many are willing to look past the shinny paint on the exterior and see what really lurks beneath. Keep after it Paul!
I did some seam sealer digging today rather than welding welding and more welding. After digging out what looked like perfectly good sealer, I found more potential areas to screw me after the new paint is on. Im a little surprised by what I found. The windshield corner was no surprise and is what sort of lead me down the restoration path. The soda blasting will help in these tight areas. Seems I have a couple more small patches. Both quarters are similar at the bottom where they join to the rockers. The sealer wasnt applied fully on the inside and is the reason why water got into the seam. Any chance I can get warranty coverage on perforation? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I turned my attention to the right front fender today. I knew trouble lurked beneath the bubbles on the paint and the rubber inner fender gasket against the fenders was the cause. Another bad design. The constant rubbing or possibly even the ability of the rubber to hold water against the inside of the front fenders will eventually cause this problem. My left fender is ok for some odd reason. I emailed ferrari UK on the cost of a fender but got no response so i chose to fix it. The car was painted in 88 before the PO purchased it and the shop placed a patch over the rust hole and pounded the fender in to recess the patch. They then used the biggest trowel they could find and applied the cheese to hide it. It lasted at least 10 years and the guy that layed on the bondo sure knew how to make it straight, I give him that but the patch job left alot to be desired. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here I cut out the entire bastardized section including the marker lamp hole as Ill be relocating them to the euro position and installing the euro repeaters. It took several hours to form the patch to the correct compound curve, add the 90 degree bend at the seperation line and trim until it was a tight fit. I tacked it and called it a day. Ill finish weld it tomorrow, plug weld the remaining screw hole from the lamp and move onto another area. I see the light at the end of the tunnel for the metal work. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Amazing pictures! I wish I had the guts and skill to tackle a job like this! You're living out my childhood dreams of FULLY restoring a Ferrari!
Wow. I just noticed this thread and just spent nearly an hour poring over it. Truly amazing work! Want to try your hand on my '59 Vauxhall Velox next?
Thanks guys, its fun but hard to keep motivated at times. Im getting my second wind now, the soda blaster is coming on the 21st of may to do the car. He has seen it and said he will do every area he can physically see, should take a day and 500lbs of soda. Ill wash the entire car down with a painters degreaser, etch prime it and follow up with regular primer to seal it. One thing is for sure, this ferrari and Im assuming any other one is tough to do compared to any domestic car. Many times the fasteners, a truck load of rivets and seam sealer, globs of dum-dum plugging corners where panels meet prior to the undercoating at the factory. I found where the c pillars meet in the engine compartment just under the tailgate hinges there are open holes the size of a quarter that get plugged with dum-dum from the factory. The same applies to the front cowl under the windshield at the corners. Stuff dum-dum in the hole and undercoat over it. The coating is hard so you dont know until you jab a screwdriver into it that its soft underneath. I guess Ill have to repeat this process as it goes back together. Ill pass on the vauxhall though!
Have you heard comments about the soda blasting and paint being able to stick to the newly prepped surface? Just curious what your experience is, and if the paint degreaser takes care of this issue. Also interested in what primer and sealer you are using? I am refinishing the front spoiler for a 308 (fiberglass) and using PPG degreaser, epoxy primer and sealer, K36 primer surfacer, then base/clearcoat. Curious what you are doing prep and paint wise, since I am heading into this for the rest of my car later this summer. Keep up the good work!!
308tr6, I was told by a prep guy i know to sand the entire car after the soda blasting and then he suggested I wash it with water to remove the film. The only problem I see with the water issue is obvious and I pointed out that the car has so many nooks and crannies that Ill never get all of the surfaces dry causing a major nightmare for myself. He agreed and mentioned the degreaser. Ill apply it with my spray gun and wipe it down. The etch primer bites into the metal and creates a good surface for the epoxy primer to adhere to rather than bare metal. Couldnt tell you the brand, most likely sikkens as thats what we use at the dealer (ford) I work at. I may get some more input from work at that time because if I screw it up, the paint will peel off the car and then Ill have to kill myself. I would think on fiberglass, the etch primer is not needed nor is epoxy for that matter. The car will have to be coated heavily with high build primer and blocked until the cows come home to make it straight. Again, dont know the name but its not 3+1 anymore but along those lines. Good luck on the repaint, thats how I got into this mess, was just supposed to be a repaint only and now look where I am. Sometimes I think I should have done a quick mop and glow paint job and flipped it but then again, it is a ferrari.
Newman, keep the posts coming man, we're all gunning for ya! The work looks exhausting, but the results are going to be awesome. This will truly be a "hand done" work of art when completed. Regards, Dave
Newman, Good on you. You realise you won't be able to part with this car for the rest of your life ? Personally, I'm waiting to see the pictures when its wheeled out into the sunshine ! keep them coming. ___________ Richard
Good luck wiht the Project, Been there myself and worse a few times. Even got the girlfriend involved she said that I spent more time with the car than her. So I got her to paint the interior of the car with anti-rust paint. She Did it And never said a word and never helped again!!, but was straight there at the end after the MOT saying can I take it to work. I have decided to have a sabatical year off this year, only rebuilding the top end of the engine, and have Just finished a Motor bike. Its only May and I am bored Missing the garage. P.S Nice garage. Respect..
Im looking forward to seeing paint on it let alone rolling it out into the sun. Should have colour this spring/early summer. As far as a week goes, Im counting on a year and hopefully thats enough time. I dont want to rush it and it is a big drain on the cash flow as well. I took some shots today, its ready to be blasted with the exception of the washer jets and throttle cable still giving me a hard time coming off. There is nothing else I can remove so now I have to fabricate the caster set-up to roll it around. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here are the close-ups of the holes that get plugged with this grey soft stuff that I call dum-dum. It looks like the stuff to hold a windshield in but is paintable. There a 6 holes in total. 2 under the dash just at the top corners that you can see from inside the front wheel well. 2 under the rear gate hinges that lead to the package tray under the backglass which I think caused my surface rust there. 2 at the base of the c-pillars where they meet the trunk firewall leading into the trunk. I want to use seam sealer in these places but Ill see how it works, it may sag. After all the work it will take to complete, I would be hesitant to sell it but if the right TR came along, who knows. Maybe Ill just save my pennies and add a second ferrari rather than trade up, it just takes longer. I noticed my clutch cable has a broken strand, just starting to fray as is the throttle cable. Oh well, just more money right? The clutch cable pulley would also make a good window regulator pulley replacement as it has bearings, the same diameter pulley and the same bolt hole size. The window pulleys have bushings and sieze up, something to consider if someone is looking for better pulleys for the crappy window system. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Great job Paul. It's good to see that there are a few "hobbyist" type Ferrari owners. I found dum-dum putty sealing the gap between the main frame rails and the FG floorpan on my GT4. It seemed to have a fiberous reinforcement in it like the dum-dum ("duct-seal") used in the HVAC business. It seems that the "while I am in there" bug has bitten me as well. I started this spring with a torn CV boot and have so far rebuilt the axles, disassembled the Konis, cleaned out and resealed them, inspected and re-tensioned the belts, welded a leak in the coolant expansion tank and replaced the thermostat. I still have to weld the loose baffles in the muffler and with almost everything disconnected from the engine, she keeps saying to me "replace my valve seals". BTW, what was the final resolution on which seals work on the 308 2v?
I did some minor fiberglass repair (cracks and a small hole), sanded the whole thing off, to find what everyone said - lots of filler from Ferrari - but mostly skims. I then sprayed an epoxy sealer (I am using PPG products) over the whole thing, scuffed, and then sprayed a primer/surfacer (K36) and block sanded for hours. It was actually straighter than I expected, and had more problems with small pinholes in the original fiberglass, which I finally got sealed up. Those duraflex sand blocks are great by the way. Tonight (hopefully) I spray the final sealer, then base, then clear, purge and bake. By the way I am in the process of making a caster roller cart for my 308 also! Good luck with the blast, soda does an amazing job and I'm sure you can get it cleaned up nice afterwards to not worry about future peeling. I had the hood of my TR6 soda blasted and then sprayed it with a steam cleaner (pretty hot) so most of the water evaporated immediately to avoid the rust issue. That was 2 years ago and the paint is perfect still.
Miked .. You disassmbled the konis claned them and resealed them. Didn't know this was possible. Is it worth doing or is it better just to replace? Did it get rid of the inevitable knocking noises? sorry to highjack the thread _______________ Richard
Ham308, The Konis (carb 308 era) are easy to disassemble as long as you have a suitable pin wrench. The 308 Workshop Manual has 2 cutaway drawings showing what is inside. I my case I had one shock that didn't work allowing the suspension to easily bottom on the RR corner. I suspected that it was low on fluid (although there was no evidence of a leak) or the valves were gummed up after a quarter of a century. As it turned out I was correct on both counts. The main problem was that the main seal is just a stack of rubber washers squeezed against the shaft exactly the same as stem seal washers on a plumbing fixture. As it turns out they are just 1.125" od, .625" id, .125" thick cotton reinforced plumbing washers. My seals have deteriorated to the point that black "eraser dust" type debris had clogged all the valves and oil passageways. I ended up replacing the whole stem seal arrangement with a conventional oil seal which is what Koni did sometime after my shocks were made. Bear in mind that I look at mechanical things and want to take them apart just to see how they work, others may not want to mess with them. I have about 50 photos of what is inside, if there is an interest I'll post some but I have to downsize them first. a few photos 1; 3 basic assemblies 2; main seal washer stack, wiper ring and retaining ring on right 3; debris in piston 4; adjusting nut, covers/uncovers tiny holes in threads
Had the car soda blasted on friday but 8 hrs wasnt enough to strip the whole car. Next friday, the 28th, the rest will be done. It turns out the car was repainted over the original paint. I thought it had been stripped before. As we saw the layers coming off, I saw the top coat, the 3+1 then the original dark gray and then more 3+1. In all, .030" thick. I measured it with a depth mic. Today I wiped the car down with painters degreaser and applied primer to keep it from rusting. Once all is done, Ill strip the primer off with a sander, etch the whole thing and carry on. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
You can see the amount of lead used to make the door gaps line up. There are also seams along the fenders where the top of the front end is joined to the fender sides. They also used a small amount of lead to fill the seam. The same type of seam can be found at the lower portion of the quarters as well as the scoops. Still cant believe how much paint was on the car. Im glad its gone and if I ever do another 308, Ill strip it too, no sense in painting over all that stuff. The body lines are much crisper now. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hey that looks nice! Was curious what your reference to 3+1 is? Is that ferrari factory filler? What color is it? Also, just a note of my experience with soda blasting, before you wash or degrease the surface just after blasting, it is virtually rustproof. Also, I had a supplier the other day, say that they wash the car down with vinegar after soda blasting to get rid of and neutralize the soda - presume soda is a base, and vinegar is an acid.
The 3+1 is a type of high build primer that is used before blocking the car. It is yellow. Today there is a different product that is similar but somehow is better than the old high build product. I dont know the name of it. I degreased the car and applied primer because I wasnt comfortable waiting a week in bare metal before the blasting continues. Ill be sanding off the primer thats on there now and do the whole thing at once with a proper etch primer from a gun rather than a can like I did. Its been raining here constantly since friday night so the humidity is through the roof and I sleep well knowing its not bare. I was also told of the protection the soda leaves but Im paranoid of the rust potential. We will be switching to a lime based blast media for the frame and inner structure, it leaves a smooth satin finish but cleans the crap off quickly rather than the soda.
Thanks for the info on the 3+1. I don't blame you for getting some primer on it immediately with the wet conditions in your area. It would make me nervous too! I'm debating on the method I am going to use to remove the paint on my car, so your thread is very interesting to me right now. Be interested in what you think of the results of your "lime based" media - never heard of that.
If you plan to strip the car to paint it, due to the thickness, you have to basically take the car apart almost to the point of restoring it. I wound up restoring it because really all that was left was the engine and suspension. The interior had to come out to remove the glass to remove the trim. One thing is connected to the next, it was rediculous really. The gate had to come off to remove the back window to remove the parcel shelf and so on and so on. My interior needed freshening so it just lead to where I am. I didnt want a really nice paintjob with dirty frame tubes, dirty engine and interior that was not new looking. To help the soda blasting with the thickness of paint on my particular car, I chose to chemically strip the top coat off while he blasted away on the other side of the car. It was just taking sooo long I had to do something to help. I kept away from the seams and edges with the chemical so i dont have the stuff in the nooks and crannies to creep up on me after the paint is on. With the car in pieces, blasting isnt a concern, nothing to damage and all the soda can be blown out afterwards. Either way you go, restore/repaint, its a huge undertaking but if you restore, its done once and it will be better than new.
