355/360 exhaust manifolds stats | FerrariChat

355/360 exhaust manifolds stats

Discussion in '348/355' started by ze_shark, May 8, 2004.

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Exhaust manifolds maintenance history

  1. My 355 never had exhaust manifold replaced

  2. My 355 had an exhaust manifold replaced once

  3. My 355 had exhaust manifolds replaced twice or more

  4. My 360 never had exhaust manifolds replaced

  5. My 360 had exhaust manifolds replaced once or more

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  1. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,274
    Switzerland (NW)
    #1 ze_shark, May 8, 2004
    I am having an interesting mail exchange with Ferrari Switzerland about the reliability of the 355 exhaust manifolds, so it would tremendously help if I could put some stats behind my claims.
    The mere fact that the problem apparently vanished in the 360 would prove that it was a design flaw in the 355 ...
     
  2. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    #2 ART360, May 8, 2004
    I've heard about them cracking on the 355. My blew out because the cats got plugged up, and it ended up destroyed the manifolds. Never drive with plugged up cats, this is the end result.

    Art
     
  3. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    #3 chaa, May 8, 2004
    How can you tell if there plugged?
     
  4. jeffdavison

    jeffdavison F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    Jul 29, 2002
    2,544
    Suwanee Georgia
    Full Name:
    Jeffrey Davison
    #4 jeffdavison, May 8, 2004
    You need a follow up poll...how many miles driven.


    JD
     
  5. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,274
    Switzerland (NW)
    #5 ze_shark, May 9, 2004
    Mileage ? This would support the theory that manifolds "wear out with thermal shocks". This is the kind of part which should last for the life of the car ... like on most other modern cars.
     
  6. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    #6 chaa, May 9, 2004
    HOW CAN YOU TELL IF THE CATS ARE PLUGGED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!please.
     
  7. Mitch Alsup

    Mitch Alsup F1 Veteran

    Nov 4, 2003
    9,261
    #7 Mitch Alsup, May 9, 2004
    The cars that see a lot of track milage will eat headers even if designed correctly, so you wouljd need to separate the tracked cars from the non tracked cars. Challenge cars (especially F355s) consider headers as expendable items (like rotors.)

    My F355B has eaten a set of headers (at the track) and I expect it to eat a second set sometime this year. It is simply the cost of running the car like it was designed to run.

    Things that would make the headers last longer:

    A) get rid of the dual exit pipes on the F355 headers -- stress risers with differential heating
    B) get rid of the outer heat shield -- very bad for engine bay temperatures
    C) use thicker stainless
    D) use better stainless (304 over 303, 316 over 304)
    E) use Inconel tubing to make headers
    F) drive at least 100 miles every time you start the car*

    *this gives the entire system a chance to get up to full operating temperature and stabalize.
     
  8. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    #8 chaa, May 10, 2004
    Sooo the cats plugging up is B*ll S**T then. LOL!
     
  9. Ade

    Ade Formula 3

    Jan 31, 2004
    2,102
    UK
    #9 Ade, May 10, 2004
    I don't think so. If you have issues with your CATS and they are breaking up and not allowing the normal free passage of exhaust fumes through, then presumably this will increase the temperature within the exhaust manifolds to an unnaturally high level as the fumes back up and hang around..(?)

    I think that this could have been the main cause of mine going - the CAT was going first.

    Ade
     
  10. chaa

    chaa F1 Veteran

    Mar 21, 2003
    5,058
    #10 chaa, May 10, 2004
    Ade can you tell from looking at anything in the engine bay that your cats are going?
     
  11. matkat

    matkat Formula 3

    Mar 18, 2003
    1,840
    Scotland
    Full Name:
    Dave McGuire
    #11 matkat, May 10, 2004
    Charlie,I think this has been questioned before, there were some pics of 2 different 355 exhausts one with the cats okay and the other with them about to go,the knackered ones had a white powder/residue at the tail pipes.
    have PMd you about the 30th.
    Best
    Dave Mc
     
  12. Ade

    Ade Formula 3

    Jan 31, 2004
    2,102
    UK
    #12 Ade, May 11, 2004

    Yup, I saw this a little, but not much. The reason I new for sure, was during a service the CATs were inspected. I elected to have the CAT itself just knocked out (casing remained) at Zero cost to myself. I still have one on the left!!!! I plan to sort this out this either a 'straight thro' or 'test pipe' system in a couple of months.
    Ade
     
  13. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,274
    Switzerland (NW)
    #13 ze_shark, May 12, 2004
    Quick check:
    - no hint of the problem on Modenas (as expected)
    - 25% of 355 respondents experienced manifold/header defects at least once (N=27)
     
  14. Capt

    Capt Karting

    Nov 9, 2003
    222
    North of Boston
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #14 Capt, May 15, 2004
    Might want to ring up QV London or QuickSilver and get their take on it but I think you are 100% correct. The 355's manifolds were garbage.

    -Michael
     
  15. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,274
    Switzerland (NW)
    #15 ze_shark, May 15, 2004
    I think that many people will acknowledge that ... except Ferrari. Hence my quest for quantitative data, X cars, Y problems, Z% failure rate.
    Ferrari's argument line is:
    - not true these problem is seminal (stats can undermine this)
    - headers are a consumable part
     
  16. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,274
    Switzerland (NW)
    #16 ze_shark, May 17, 2004
    I must be cursed. Took the 355 to work today, first real drive of the season since hibernation. Dropped the top at lunch and, there is that greasy garbling sound, the unmistakeable sign of my third exhaust manifold starting to leak.
    Have not been able to tell yet if it's the left one (replaced July 03) or the right one (replaced April 02). Can't believe it. Did not even touch the car this winter so these b*****t stories on thermal shocks are not even remotely credible.
    The stories that Ferrari has done nothing to correct the design flaw and keeps producing happily headers which are bound to break may well be true. A shame.

    Choose your death: fried clutches on 360s or leaking manifolds on 355s.

    If my dealer does not find a convincing and sustainable solution, I can't think of another alternative but the gruesome perspective of getting rid of my 355.
     
  17. 720

    720 F1 Rookie

    Jul 14, 2003
    2,623
    So. Cal and No. Utah
    Full Name:
    Rick
    #17 720, May 18, 2004
    hi jean-claude,

    i never had any serious problems at all with any of my 360s....so far :) but i only put about 10,000 miles on them before i traded them in. i'm probably going to keep my stradales for several years or longer...depends on what the 360 replacement is like. so i hope i don't have any clutch or exhaust manifold issues to worry about over the years :)
     
  18. fazzaz1

    fazzaz1 Karting

    Nov 4, 2003
    89
    Mississippi
    Full Name:
    Sam Scott
    #18 fazzaz1, May 24, 2004
    My 98 has its fourth manifold on the passenger side and second on the driver side. I understand it is more prevalent on the passenger side. I have the last manifold and what happened in about 5000 miles is that the second and third pipes simply burned through in the first curve where they turn back toward the rear of the car. My car has never been tracked or run hard for any lenght of time. Ferrari's denial of a problem is absurd and shows a real indifference to its owners. I think something ought to be done about it.
     
  19. Robertb

    Robertb Formula 3

    Nov 19, 2003
    1,331
    South Oxfordshire, U
    Full Name:
    Robert
    #19 Robertb, May 24, 2004
    Nothing in my service record indicates that my car has had a replacement manifold. It is a '99 car, with 14k miles.

    Has anyone had any feedback from Ferrari technicians as to their experience?

    I'd say when mine go I will not be replacing them with OEM Ferrari items.

    Robert.
     
  20. Ade

    Ade Formula 3

    Jan 31, 2004
    2,102
    UK
    #20 Ade, May 26, 2004
    Sounds like you manifolds must be running extraordinarily hot (or some other extreme condition!!). 6 manifolds gone is just plain crazy!!! Wow, I'm sorry to hear you have had to go through this.

    (1 manifold change) Ade
     
  21. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,274
    Switzerland (NW)
    #21 ze_shark, May 31, 2004
    Tried to find a serial or lot number on my leaking manifolds but did not manage to, the visible stamping only references the part number. Does everyone have the same marking, EM129L01 and EM129R01 ?

    Noticed that the OEM manifolds are made by Ansa, who sell their own sports exhausts tubi wannabe's, see http://www.ansamarmitte.it/MRKINT/italia.HTM

    They only seem to have rear mufflers for 355s, no manifolds. Their replacement business with Ferrari must be good enough ...
     
  22. 9software

    9software Karting

    Mar 31, 2004
    59
    Hampton Roads, VA
    Full Name:
    Shawn
    #22 9software, Jun 29, 2004
    How much are the single or dual manifold replacement costs? Do they tend to fail for particular years? Will running test pipes and/or tubi exhaust help?
     
  23. ART360

    ART360 Guest

    #23 ART360, Jun 29, 2004
    1500 each for the factory replacement, 1500 total for QV. Those are estimates taken from memory, but I think fairly accurate. I'd go with the QV because they are made from heavier material, less likely to break.

    Art
     
  24. f355spider

    f355spider F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 29, 2001
    17,934
    USA
    #24 f355spider, Jun 29, 2004
    Help me with the math here.....17 of 43 responses had one or more 355 exhaust manifolds replaced. Now I realize this is not a scientific poll, but what is the percentage here? If I were FNA, I would be on "damage control"!

    Dave
     
  25. ze_shark

    ze_shark Formula 3

    Jul 13, 2003
    1,274
    Switzerland (NW)
    #25 ze_shark, Jun 30, 2004
    Yep, precisely the intent of this non-scientific poll. Getting 'better' every day clocking 18/44=41% of cars which experienced manifold defects. It's not a quality problem, it's an hemorragy.

    Now if you were FNA, or Ferrari Spa for that matter (don't forget there is a world beyond the shores of the US ;-) ), why would you fix something while you have dumb customers which
    a) don't complain (at least not loud enough)
    b) pay hefty prices for replacement parts
    c) keep queueing to buy cars of questionable quality
     
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