308/328 MOTONS ADJUSTABLE SHOCKS

I am interested. I went to your site, but couldn't find MOTONS adj. shock. Could you advise how much it is, and how does installation should be done, such as by F dealer, Norwood, or similar shops, etc. (I don't want to do it!)
I appreciate your reply. (you can PM if you prefer)

Yoshi Ace

 

Well if you are that excited to want to share it with us now...
How about posting the price Now!
Sponsor the site???

 

Say around $1200 a corner for triple adj.????

 

How about pricing like Dave says. If you are that excited about it you would have more info to supply to us..
1. is it a direct bolt in product?
2. Can we use our stock springs?
3. What is the amount of adjustment allowed...how much can you lower the car?
4. How well does it do with street use...are they variable dampening?
5. what about bushings...do we need to buy them or are they included with the shocks?
6. can it be done at home?
7. how does this affect the suspenion geomerty after install.
8. are ther any perment mods that need to be done for the install?
9. How excatly do they work?
10. Is there an external pump for the shocks? It appears they are hydrulic
11. are they also self leveling?

 

Yoshi the set of Motons will sell for $2900.oo
The springs will be in addition and I will have the spring price for you Later this week they will be a 2.5inch coil.
I am currently working on some attatchment spacers for mounting.
I am also workind on some attatchment brackets for the nitrogen canister.
With instalation it will be as easy as removing and replacing the OEM units with the addition of rounting of the hose and mounting of the cannister.
I will also be manufacturing the cannister mounting hardware this week.Your local Ferrari dealer should charge you approximatly1.5 hrs per corner to install the motons.And the charge for a 4 wheel alignment.
For an order or futher Information please email myself at [email protected] or call my cellular at 1 925 7596102.

 

Dave
The set of 4 will go out at $2900.00.
In addition there will be 4 - 2.5inch ID coil springs.
Also the cost of mountig spacers and canister mounting brackets.
The dealer should charge approximatley 1.5hrs per corner to do the instalation.
There is also a4x wheel alignment which I recommend.
Thanks .

 

Dave you can contact myself at email [email protected] or you can reach me at 1 925 7596102.
best regards.

 

Tbakowsky.
The shocks will be a direct bolt on unit.
These shocks will come with a set of 2.5inch springs.
You should have quite a bit of adjustment in regard to lowering but I will let you know exactly how much when I perform an istalation this week.
These socks will give your adjustability in both Rebound and compression and you will be able to work with these shocks at home to get your chassis ride set up.
On the initiall set up of the ride heights on all 4 corners set and correct and a good starting point is the stock height.You will reset the Geometry.
the only question I have at this time is mounting the canister for easy access and I want to avoid placing holes or cutting anything on the car
and want the install to be very clean.
I will follow up with specs after I install a set.
These shocks are truly the best shocks in the world.
And will look forward to your comments upon installing a set.
For futchure inquires please email myself at [email protected]
or call me on my cell at 1 925 7596102.
best regards.

 

Yoshi I have made Progress this week and now have the mounting spacers also I have now a spring combination being a 2.5 inch coil.
and I will be installing a data system on the car for set up and to see how the Shocks are working.
Wayne Hynes

 

so these are the double-adjustable motons? I know that they do have triple adjustables out there from moton.

the alignment is a M U S T and not only to be aligned, but to be corner weighted, especially w/this dynamic. perhaps david (speedmoore) can chime in to just how well the motons would do on the 3x8's, along with the expected installation time. I know his alignment time is around a full day, setting up the car just right. so I would expect a day and a half to two days for complete install and *proper* setup.

 

Hello Schatten.
I believe you are referring to my good friend David Moore at Moorespeed.
These are a double adjustable Moton.
On the front of the car I have chosen an eight-inch spring with a small preload spring. I have chosen
a spring rate that I believe will be a good start in the front of the car. With this spring it will allow me to lower the car about 2 inches.
In the rear of the car I have choosen a 10 inch spring that will give me the same lowering capability with a rate once again that I believe will work. On the initall set I will check the original ride heights on the chassis taking into account we have old shocks and springs in the 328.
I will then install the Motons and preload all four corners until I am back close to our starting ride height.
Then, looking at our camber and toe in settings and then disconnecting the sway bars and looking at our cornerweights and rechecking our alignment specs and what will be fun is having the car half full of fuel and some driver weight in the car.
The springs will be 2.5 inches and a motorsport type.
I will also install data acquisition on the car to see what the shocks are really doing. Obviously I will have
the rebound and compression pre set and I will probably start out with canister pressures of about 150 psi in the rear and 125 psi in the front.
Tire inflation pressures should be correct. The tires that I would recommend should be sound. In answer to the time to do this job, because these shocks will give you so much walking through the set up with an experienced guy like David, would be a great time for you.

I hope I can get the opportunity to compare notes with David.

Kind Regards,

Wayne Hynes.

 

Thanks for updates, SR Ferrari.

Based on what you posted, the item is not ready for immediate delivery, right? I would appreciate the package price for everything except installation. I will do the installation locally, so your instruction will be needed, too. Will any written manual for installation be available?

Yoshi Ace

 

Rear shocks with 2" diameter springs are needed to allow for larger tires and thus 10"+ rims. I have a set of 360 rims that I am fitting to my 328. I would LOVE to use your suspension setup, but I was wondering if it would be possible. Thanks for the help!

 

Hello Auraraptor .
With The Moton the smallest ID spring I can use would be 2.25 inches.
And I am not sure wheather this will work for you .
I would have to do some home work on this choice of spring and set up.
It may be worth while to fit the shock with the coil to see and check clearences but you may have already established exactly what you need.
look forward to your comments.
Kind Regards
wayne Hynes.

 

Hello Yoshi ace
Iwill enclose a step by step instruction in the kits
and will have very soon a firm price on your package price.
Thanks for your Patience.
Kind Regards.
wayne Hynes.

 

I believe that my 308 will be the first car to get a pair of these puppies in the states. I saw them last week at Wayne's shop where he is working away on my car. These shocks are pretty flipp'en sweet, an absolute work of art. I popped for a set immediatly!

 

Guys,

I'm not trying to bad mouth this thing but maybe you can correct my thinking. Wayne said, "I have chosen
a spring rate that I believe will be a good start in the front of the car." What parameters have you used to make this guess? Those thinking about this change...what are "you" trying to achieve? Better handling is not diretly related to the sofistication of one piece of gear you might install. There are many considerations that effect the final outcome. Things will look real cool no doubt about it. But 20-30 year old street cars, on street tires, driven on the street, will most likely have a "set it and forget it" driver who could not feel or use the benefits of the shock changes at street speeds anyway. For the rare occasional time the driver hits the track he will most likely be doing HPHE at best. He will not have testing time to dial in the best settings for the track either. This type of shock/spring set-up is more appropriote with "purpose built use" on the higher end of the scale that go with suspension bushings that are non-rubber, modern wheels not 7x14's, at least DOT race rubber, and a basket of springs to test with and use at different tracks. Some manufacturerers do detune high end products to make you think you are buying high end. An example are the multiple Brembo brake kits available for the 348-355 series of cars. O.K. my nomex is on give it to me...

 

Hello fatbillybob.
To find a spring weight,you must corner weight each corner of the car to find the total load that any given spring will have to take.
You can also,if you don,t have the equipment to do this,take dimensions from the stock spring and use these dimensions as a starting point.
For example, if you have a 14inch spring that is a 150# rate and you need to go to a shorter spring,you will have to increase the rate by 25lbs per inch that you lose in free length.
This then allows me to tune the suspension.
The Ferraris are legendary sports cars and owners are buying them for legendary performance granted most owners may not take their Ferraris to the track and do any serious racing ,they would want to feel they can with superior suspension in their cars at any case.


The dampening in the 308and 328 currently is a less than a preferable suspension set up and old at that.
I once dove a drove a 97 dodge ram pick at 70mph travelling a long sweeping bend and it felt like the divers seat wanted to pop out of the window, I then installed a set of 4x4 off road shock absorbers and was able to drive the same bend and the driveability problem was completly gone.
Testing at Daytona this past weekend for this upcoming 24 hour Rolex out of the 75 starters 35 were running Moton suspension and when a world leader builds a product for a specific application they most certainly want to achive all results that the superior suspension will give you such as superior handling.It also allows me to work on other aspects to improve the drivability of these models.
With the Motons they have easy adjustibility to soften and stiffen your suspension. Owners can get more involved with tuning their suspension to their liking if they want to make adjustments after the inital install and set up.
To have Motons Avaliable for These applications is long overdue.
Kind Regards
Wayne Hynes.

 

Wayne,

There is no question in my mind that Motons are hot. My questions are more about tuning and arriving at specific spring rates and shock tuning. I am trying to learn more about suspensions...you know they say tuning your suspension is like gaining 100HP... Anyway I don't understand:

" To find a spring weight,you must corner weight each corner of the car to find the total load that any given spring will have to take.
You can also,if you don,t have the equipment to do this,take dimensions from the stock spring and use these dimensions as a starting point.
For example, if you have a 14inch spring that is a 150# rate and you need to go to a shorter spring,you will have to increase the rate by 25lbs per inch that you lose in free length.
This then allows me to tune the suspension."

First what does 25#/ inch shorter do you you? Is this an empirical rule of thumb used so that you don't bottom your car starting with shorter springs that have the same rate? If for example you had stock 14" that compressed 4" yields 600# at the corner. Then shorten the spring to 10" with a 4" compression lowers the ride height and still 600# at the corner with 6" left of travel. So basically you have chosen to go from a 150# spring to 250# spring but there is no data as in laptimes for this car or is there some empirical math that you do? Stiffer is not always better. Also, any math would have to take into account the change in wheel rate Vs. the change in spring rate. Ultimately no one cares about the spring rate it is the wheel rate that matters. The spring rate only gets you to the wheel rate. Somewhere there has to be some compromises as an example you can increase alot of negative camber on soft sprung cars that roll over to use the camber vs. a really stiff car that can't roll or tires that can't slip enough to use all the negative camber. Then there is the science of shock dynamics to work with spring dynamics. Now I'm really confused!


Dispite this truism:
"The Ferraris are legendary sports cars and owners ...snip...would want to feel they can with superior suspension in their cars at any case."

Moton is a great name but it still has to function as a total package. And any such change has to have a Mandatory corner weight and alignment or you might as well just stick to stock IMHO.

 

Any news about the spring rates? Will those shocks fit 328 88.5 with the new suspension? Are the wheel rate on 328 88.5 the same as for the normal 328 suspension?

Ciao
Peter

 

Hi SR Exotic,

I have been working with the Moton dampers now for several years. It is also my opinion that you can't get a better damper. An engineering knowledge of dampers and how they work is an on going education on my part, I learn everyday. In answer to fatbillybobs question of the correct spring rate would be variable to the conditions at hand. It changes by venue, by weather, and by driving style. A simple check would be to go after a long sweeping corner. Once the car is in its radius, it is settled. There is no damper movement, you are on the spring and ARB only. This can give you a quick idea of where you are as far as chassis support. Even if you have a spring that is in the ballpark, you can increase or decrease the cannister pressure to dial your platform in. I would recommend adding some damper displacement sensors on the corners to log and analyze the baseline. You would need to differentiate the displacement to acheive damper velocity. It would also provide the essential data to view roll couple and ride heights front, center and rear. I would also look at wedge by using opposite corner information. (front left-rear right) and (front right-rear left). I would be happy to assist you in some of these tasks. Just let me know if I can help... Here is a screen shot of damper velocity used in a histogram to look at a lap. The left side of the curve shows the damper compression and the right of the curve shows damper rebound. The x axis shows damper speed so you can see that 1" per second would be the low speed velocity and anything over 1" would be the high speed velocity. As fas as the double adjustment you will not have tuning capabilities to slow/high speed but you will need to have the knowledge anyway. I beleive you have a good idea here, the technology at the build of older Ferrari models has changed dramatically! Good luck!