Holiday outing part 2

Well, yesterday was a very humbling experience to say the least. I used to love driving on snow (as I said I passed Swiss driving exam with chains on snow). At the onset of the first flakes I used to go out and do handbrake turns in parking lots. Once ripped off a tire doing that and once actually did a frontal into a post. Oh well, but I still loved it.

But with this Ferrari it just plain sucks. You have no grip whatsoever and even in first gear the rear comes out immediately. I couldn't believe it. I once participated in a race on an ice field (actually a slalom on a ice hockey field). That was about the feeling I had yesterday. I wonder what a 308 would feel like with very narrow tires with spikes. Not that I really want to find out, but it made me wonder about the 288 GTO which was designed to participate in ralleys. These 308 mid car engines just plain suck on ice/snow. Hard to imagine anybody would want to drive them, but then again there was the Stratos and it was successful. So I guess only the driver is to blame here...

 

I TRIED to drive,(unintentionally) my Corvette last Winter in the Snow.The wheels/Tires are abot 6 inches wider than on my 308. It was HORRIBLE!! NO traction at All! (no fun,either!)

 

Yeah, since yesterday I can imagine.

I'm used to spinning wheels on snow and to some tailhappyness or understeer of the car. Heck I drove a Chevy Vega in alpine Switzerland on snow and loved it. But the 308 was incredibly bad: The moment you applied any power, the tail came out. I ended up driving in first gear with the clutch halfway in and going at pedestrian speed the emergency lights flashing. Unreal.

I still wonder what this car would feel like on "motorcyle wheels" with spikes though.

 

Andreas-

You need to have another car for inclement weather. If that doesn't work, rent one.

Glad to hear everyone made it home safely, though Andreas sure had a horror story.

Has anyone heard from Norbert; apparently he was the last to leave.

I had a great time, being with GREAT people!

Now, when we can all bring the F-cars out, it will be even a better time.

I wish Chelle and her cadre showed; I'll have to find out what happened. And Mr. FCA himself (NoWives), I invited him to join us!

I'm guessin', he's too 'high-falootin' to get together with the 'likes' of us, since our little get-together wasn't an FCA sanctioned event.

True colours eventually show, like those of us that are in this Gig, for the fun and enjoyment of it, as opposed to those who are in it for the so-called 'Prestige'.

And Mike, the rumour was that you might show, but you didn't.

As the regional director of our local FCA chapter, you should have at the least, responded to these posts.

We all know that the 'Upper Echelon' of FCA-Central States', monitor this site, but so few of you respond, or admit who you are when you do.

Can you now understand why so many of us, think of the FCA as being nothing more than a closely knit clique; where some are accepted and others are considered cast outs.

Ya know, being a member of the FCA is supposed to be fun; it's not meant to be a popularity contest.

'Board Members', please respond; I look forward to your flames.

Mike, Drew, Rick and Sharon; expose yourselves.

I admit, I'm the bad boy of the club, and I believe in expressing my attitudes; and I've got the guts to state them.

Can anyone put me down for that??"

 

You know I was content to just lay back here and read that venom that you spew but sanity got the best of me. So....

Mr. Darolls-- I'll be blunt. I DON'T LIKE YOU ! ( I'll let that sink into your harddrive before I continue)

Clearly, you are not that " bad boy"like you say-- you are just a trouble-maker. You have some twisted need to stir up s_hit in an otherwise pretty nice club with some nice people.

And me, the last thing I am is "high falootin" and I'm not in this club for whatever "prestige" may be gained. I probably would love to hang out with the rest of the chatters--but that may include you--so I'm out.

You quote that "many of us think the FCA as being nothing more than a closely knit clique". I can NOT believe that these chatters are behind you on that one. While, admittedly, I really don't know them-- I do see a genuine love for the marque in their writings.

There is something positive I can offer here:
A. Run for office in the FCA and "cast out" these very bad men.

B. Get behind the FCA and support it and make it better.

C. JUST QUIT !!

I'm sure you have seen that bumper sticker: " LEAD, FOLLOW, OR GET OUT OF THE WAY".

 

P.S. Mr. Darolls:

I know you are only trying to draw me "out"-- Sorry, ain't gonna happen.

So enough with all this petty crap--Get a life.

Besides, I'm having way too much fun telling all your fellow chatters what kind of person you are. ( Not that they have not figured that out yet.)

 

I really don't want to jump into the personal vendettas you two guys have for each other. To be honest, it is almost amusing.

However there is one thing I'd like to stress as it really trully matters to me and I realize I stated this before:

I DO NOT BELIEVE FCA AND FCHAT ARE COMPETING ENTITIES!

For me it is all about the cars and whether membership of a (semi) official club like FCA or a 21st century cyberworld forum like FChat is the medium, does not really matter. They are different platforms to share the passion and get your message across.

Just for the record: The founder of FChat, Rob Lay is the president of FCA Dallas (at least I believe so). That kinda tells you how close these medias are tied to each other.

So whatever battles Skip and Mr. Anonymous fight, let's not get into a "us versus them" mode. I am a happy member of FCA and wouldn't want to have to give up FChat either. Maybe it is the Swiss in me, who is always looking for a common/neutral ground.


Not everything is pink at FCA and the same goes for FChat. So what?! Such is life. Both clubs get me together with other people who share the same passion. That's really all I want.

 

Yes,I have to agree with Andreas. I joined the FCA so that I could do things with my Ferrari. Which I have. (I belong to 2 Corvette Clubs also) And,finding FChat was an added bonus,as we've been able to add more ways to communicate with each other. And do more with our cars. I follow no one. I just like to hang out with others who own,or love Ferrari's. And,the more chances and opportunities,the better. (FCA AND FChat) I go for drives by myself,(well,with my Wife,or Son,too) But,prefer to do it with more,fellow Ferrari enthusiasts. "The More,the Merrier!",as they say. So,I like to post if I am going for a drive,so that if anyone else wants to join up,thats cool. If not,well thats O.K.,too. I'm still going to go driving. And would like it if everyone else does,and I'd be glad to join them. Life is too short. And,we are Lucky that we can enjoy Life in a Ferrari. SO MANY envy us. I want to enjoy as much time in my Ferrari as I can. And,it's always a little more Fun when I do it with other Ferrari people. So,any chance that I get,I'm going to try to join in. I don't want to get into the Politics of it. I just want to hang out,and drive my Ferrari. If there was no local chapter of the FCA,or FChat. I'd still be going driving in my Ferrari. But,would have not had the chance to attend those Car shows,or,meet up with all of the guys here on FChat. So,I appreciate both. I didn't get a Ferrari as an Investment. I got it to enjoy. Alone,or with other Ferrari owners. And,in 2004,I plan on doing ALOT of driving to make up for the last 2 years that I couldn't. (Between 2 Summers of Road Construction in front of my house. And,my bad back and medical problems,which,hopefully,after Surgery in January,won't be as bad.),so I'm going to be buggin' everybody to go out driving alot!!!

 

P.S. And,when I said,"Hang out and Drive",I didn't mean it so that any women in SUV's or working in a toll booth would get a surprise,if they looked down into my car !!

 

Andreas/Frank/Bob: Clearly, I agree with all of you and there is no need (or should be no need) for politics and "vendettas" as you put it so well.

I know it may not look like it, but this is not what I'm about. I just have a real problem when someone starts bum-rapping something I'm very passionate about and it's difficult to take the high-road when that happens. I never started any of this.

I can't think that any of you would allow someone, anyone, to say things that are totally wrong and you not respond. And that's all I'm doing here--Responding. ( granted, not in a very nice way--but we are all adults here)

Andreas, I don't have your "Swiss" diplomacy and I would be happy to just fade away--that is, of course, until someone again starts to undermine this club. Then out from my "spider hole" I will emerge.(Andreas-note the lame attempt to be amusing)

And Bob, thanks for talking to me -- I'm really not a bad guy (a little twisted maybe, but not bad)

 

Now don't cut yourself short on that one either. Spider holes are for dictators. Don't go there.

Speaking of: I'm afraid of the day when the US troops will finally find the spider that lived in that hole. I mean, the hole is the size of a parking garage with an entrance large enough to fit Saddam through. So what really happened to that spider? Did it nibble on some WMDs?

 

All I can say is this. I joined the club to DO THINGS. I have no problem with the $135.00 yearly dues,because we get a monthly newsletter. Quarterly Magazine. And,discounts on Parts and Labor at Ferrari dealers. But,there are only a couple events per year. Living in Chicago,we really only have about 7 months of decent weather to DO Things. So,we need to do more in that time. As far as paying to enter these shows. I really don't have a problem with that,but,"our" cars ARE the Show,or Event. No cars. No show. No event. And,I think that just by committing a whole day to sit around. Spending the time cleaning and polishing our cars. And,spending money at the Food and accessorie vendors should be enough. And,I can see Skip's point. We organize these drives on our own. No big deal. We like to drive our cars,and enjoy the Comaraderie of fellow Ferrari owners and Enthusiasts. But,there aren't any,"sanctioned",if you will,FCA sponsored Drives. Or,apparent interest in doing so. I constantly read in the Monthly newsletters about all of the other FCA branches across the Country going on these nice drives,and Brunch,or Dinner. Nothing here. So,I agree with him about that. Maybe a little bit more involvement would be nice. Thats all. Other than that,I do enjoy the events that we do have,and regret that now I will have to miss the Bella Macchines show,due to being in Scottsdale,AZ. during that time. Oh well. There's the other ones.

 

Since I'm not a board member I can't really comment on how much $$$ is used for what. However I'm quite certain they live on a tight budget and the money for the events aren't abused but pay for necessary things.

I have no clue in what is involved to put up an event like the Macchine D'Italia, but would guess, that aside from personal efforts and manhours spent on this, it costs real money to rent a field, pay insurance, organize portalets, what have you. And quite frankly I'm lazy. I'm happy somebody else goes through all the effort and I only have to show up with my car.

Frank, do you realize, that there was brunch at Oakstreet and Monroe Street events? So it is not like we never sit down at a table.

I give you the lack of organized drives. Luckily we have our own little group doing those, but what would be really nice, would be an organized ralley. Say a Mille Miglia on historic/scenic roads around Lake Michigan. That is something we don't have here and would be a nice event. Maybe even combined with a racetrack along the way.

BTW: If any of you want to get more involved, January 10 is a public board meeting where not only the club will be discussed, but also the organization of the 2005 FCA Nationals, hopefully to be held in Indy by our very own club! I bet Mike E. is happy to see a lot of volunteering hands.

Last but not least: $ 135 is only a good deal if you actually put it to good use. I bought my USGP tickets through FCA and got the tickets at a highly discounted rate.

 

OK let me try to ansewer some questions and put a few things to rest.For Bob,as far as the 135.00 dues only 35.00 comes back to our region for our budget.Central States has about 500 members in six states and about 220 in Illinois.Each state gets the 35.00 per member for however many members they have. Illinois share ($7700.00 approx.)goes for the web site,newsletter,printing events and other expenses.For example the Italian car show alone was almost 15000.00 to run with very little sponsorship.You do the math. For Frank, A couple of events?Last year we had at least 15 events,many of them with no charge to members.This years calendar already has 13 dates filled and I still have to work in a few more things,but I'm running out of open weekends.As for the drives and brunches, how about when you plan one for next year you make it for the club not just the F-chatters.I sure there are people who don't follow this site but if they saw a drive on our calendar they would love to be a part of it.For Andreas,I must thank you for defending the club on this site.I agree with you that we do not have "competing entities" with F-Chat and the FCA.I think this site is a great tool for me and helps me to see other peoples opinions and ideas.FOR SKIP ,I saved the best for last.Skip, "Good old boys,Clique,Upper Echelon" these are all terms I find offensive. The people on the board have titles they have earned by spending their time and effort to make sure you have things to do with your cars.Why do you always look at the negative side of things?A little revolution is a good thing but you abuse the privilage.Why is it that I never see a post from you about the good things this club has done.We run a car club not a corporation and not everyone will be happy all the time,but we try.I have tried to talk to you on the phone several times in the past about other issues but I guess you need a open forum for your opinions,so here 's your big chance.Come to the January meeting and I'll be happy to address any comments you have.
I hope you will all plan to come to the meeting on Jan 10.It will be at the VFW Hall at 10 W. Higgens Rd. in Park Ridge.Your input is valued.

 

Hello all,
My name is Bill and I am a Ferrariholic. (8->}

I do not regret the price of membership in the club, nor do I mind paying admission for the events. I feel that the fellowship found at these events is stimulating and enjoyable. For many years as a non-member, non-owner, I attended events and found the people and experiences to my liking, this was probably a factor in my eventual purchase of a Ferrari, becoming and continuing as a member of the club. I may not be able to make it to all of the hosted events but I do enjoy the ones that I can.

I think that most people feel, that Skip is really not a bad guy, he just, on occasion, wakes up in the middle of the night and types something rude. Sometimes he means it, sometimes he doesn't.
Regards,
Bill

 

Andreas: I knew you would buzz in on that "spider hole" reference(thanks)-- But what is a "WMD" ??

 

Hi bill--I'm the guy no one seems to like.

I must say you are very eloquent in your statement about Skip.

But I ask you--what about Personal Responsibility. As adults we just can't go out , say nasty( and inaccurate ) things and not expect someone to respond. ??

You must be a lawyer.

Laywer: Judge, my client is innocent of ax-murdering his current wife just because she let their 150lb. "shedding" German Shepard into the Alcantra interior of his new Stradale.

Judge: INNOCENT !!

 

Although I don't have it in front of me, one of the recent issues of the newsletter (with Dan Harrison talking about the track, and Andreas' write-up) had the financials of the club printed. As anyone can see, there is not a lot of money left over after expenses. Although (not being on the board) I don't know what these numbers may include, it is clear to me that its a non-profit organization, but I feel that with the newsletters and events throughout the year, you definitely get you moneys' worth. Obviously, with $135x220 members, that doesn't begin to pay for $15K of Oak Brook, but thats what vendors are for. I remember hearing that day that the club broke about even.

I'm definitely not somebody to get in to politics. Everybody has a story to tell, whether true or not. I'm not even a "Ferrari or die" kind of guy. I have a humble Euro '85 308 GTS QV, and I just bought a Porsche Boxster S and a Lexus SUV. My next car will probably be an Anniversary Countach or TR (although Mike is trying to convince me to get a Boxer...) Maybe when I'm older (31 now) I'll consider cars as an investment, but for now I just want to live out my childhood fantasies and drive the machines that made it hard to decide whether to look at the babe on the car in the posters, or the car itself.

That being said, I've never joined a car club until the FCA, and I've met a lot of different types of people there. I work in the film/movie industry, and meet all types there as well. Variety is the spice of life, and what enriches our daily experience. Everybody's a character in their own way, but it gives you and your significant other some good conversation to talk about the different people over dinner after the events (or in this case the online postings).

Anyway, I've never felt any "upper echelon" or elitism in the group towards me, and like I said, I've got a humble 308, not a 360 or F50. Most of my money is not visible unless you visit my studio. And even then most people don't know what any of the equipment is, or its value. The only "snobbish" experience I ever had was at Oak Brook when we were video taping interviews for the DVD, and I asked this one lady if she wanted to preorder a DVD since it would be cheaper now than when it's released (by $5), and she came off with the nose in the air and literally said "Well, I'm driving a Ferrari, so I can afford it then", which left me thinking, lady, if you're driving a Ferrari, what's $25 to you now? Kind of trying to draw a parallel to people complaining about $135 for club dues...

Blaa Blaa, I just had a few drinks at dinner and am realizing that I'm babling, but basically I'm sticking up for the club, or at least my experience with it, and also find FChat to be another great outlet to geek out with other people who enjoy the same thing I do. I had hoped to make it to both XMas events, and couldn't make the FChat one due to tight deadlines on projects (we never sleep, and work weekends), but people should see the value in both groups.

 

I have been reading the posts within this thread and am suprised at the various opinions of all that have responded.
Car clubs can mean different things to different people. To many it is a chance to belong to a group that shares a common interest with you. To others, Ferrari ownership can be used to express ones self made ego over who they are or what they do for a living.
Personally, I'm in it for the "fun factor". If it's not fun, it's time to move on.
All that have responded to this thread except Bill & Mike are 308 owners. As a previous 308/328 owner, I'm sure Mike can relate to the frustrations that are shared by many in this class. Put a 308/328/Mondial next to a rare Ferrari at a major event, and the 308 is barely recognised. Take the same 308 to a hot rod show and it's a hit. I have heard many of you post your enthusiasm after winning a simple $5 trophy at a local hot rod show. That $5 trophy made you feel that you, and your car are special as it should be. I have a couple of those $5 trophys myself.
Personally, I enjoy the non-competitive FCA events the most, especially the Prancing Horse Roundup that Mike throws. That wall plaque is really nice to take home and remember even if it isn't etched crystal.

Regarding the F-Chat drives that we had last year. They are simple to set up. All can be notified via e-mail or a post of a date, time and meeting place on short notice. We had small groups attend which is easy to set up and stay together during the drive. I set up an FCA drive in 2002. What was the most frustrating part? Getting members to commit to attend. Getting a accurate head count prior to the event can be the most difficult part for the organizer, since he/she is responsible for making the arrangements it can make or break the event's success.This applies for any event.
Can you imagine the complications in setting up a very large driving event?

Regarding future FCA events, I believe, and correct me if I am wrong, our Central States President is a master at auto detailing. It might behove many members if he could share his detailing techniques to others by organizing an FCA sponsored "Detail Day". This could benefit many of us that can't afford a $500 detail job prior to major events and detail ourselves.

Regarding Skip's post...it apparently sturred emotions both pro & con FCA. If he hadn't made this post, would you all have made the comments that you made? This could be a positive since as a paid member, the FCA is your club and you should make your comments both pro & con known. Staff should seriously consider your concerns and suggestions. Keep the "cons" constructive, and you could make a great car club better for the majority of it's members.
With this, I bid you all a happy holidays!
Dave

 

So much for our holiday outing thread here... Well guys, there are 221 members in Illinois now, i just joined the other night. Been himming and hawing and on the edge to join until Frank showed me a 10% discount coupon from Continential for Major services. Well, i'm on there list this winter to get my major service done on my 328, so , i thought, what the heck, so i joined the club. I have been having a lot of fun this past 6 months on our cruises and stuff and so many of you have talked about the club in a good way. So hopefully come next year, i can experience some of these FCA events. I am looking forward to it all...

Oh, not to change the subject here, but when my 328 goes in for it's major, i am considering having them put on a Tubi exhaust. I haven't heard one before but all i hear is praise and thats the way to go. Does any know what a Tubi sounds like on a 328? How much louder is it or does it just have a different ring to it???? I need a push on this one way or another...

 

Todd,
This is off topic, but a Tubi on a 328 shouldn't sound that much different than a 308. I have one on my 308 which has the double cat system. Yours has a single cat system, and as far as sound is concerned I'm pleased. The Tubi is far lighter than the original as well... Go for it!
Dave

 

Hello,everyone. Hey,I was not complaining about the Club or the $135.00 membership dues at all. Actually,I said that I thought that they were fair. And,I even recommended to Tod that he should join. Which he did. And,I wasn't complaining about the nominal entry fee's for events,either. I just said that if you are already a member,and take the time to clean your car,and commit a whole day to an event. Then that right there is a pretty good commitment. As,the Cars ARE the Show. Thats all. As far as the number of events go.(15) This year,I was aware of only 7... 1.) Open House at Continental in May. 2.) Oak St. in June. 3.) Oakbrook in June. 4.) Prancing Horse Roundup in July. 5.) The Italian Village Day. 6.) A Track day at Blackhawk Farms,(not sure when). 7.) FCA Christmas party in December... And,except for the Track day,all the other events are "Parking" ones. But,No Drives. I would just like to see a couple nice,organized Drives like I see in the Monthly newsletter,that the other Club branches do. I personally have posted a few drives on this site. Along with several Cruise Nights and Car Shows. And,a couple of the other guys have too. But,I didn't even find this site until August of this year. Maybe it would be a good idea to post FCA events on this site,too. I have a Ferrari to have Fun with,and to Drive. I didn't buy it as an "investment" to just sit,covered in a Garage,"speculating" that it might be worth more money someday. And,I enjoy being with other Ferrari owners who feel the same way. Thats why I joined the Club.

 

P.S. I can't help that I'm enthusiastic about getting together and Driving with my fellow Ferrari owners! Isn't that what it's all about? Comaraderie! It's alot of Fun when we get a bunch of Beautiful Ferrari's together and go driving. We love it. The general public loves it. Nothing like having a group of Ferrari's driving together,then all parking at a nice place to have a bite to eat. We need to do that more often,and not just the 3X8 cars. (and Bill's 365,and Kim & Michelle's 250GTO's) We need a nice variety!!! These cars were meant to be Driven!!! Not encapsulated!!! Everyone always complains that the 3X8 cars are "Over exposed". Well,when they are the only ones out there driving around,what else can be expected?

 

Hi NoWives an MikeE,
Let me begin by saying, I never said anything about not liking anybody and I sincerely hope that you didn't glean that from any of my statements. If I didn't like you, you probably wouldn't have to wonder about it.

Now please bear with me while I ramble for a spell.............
As to the responsibility that we all should assume for our actions. Yes, you are correct, I wholeheartedly agree, but also in other personal relationships I have had moments where I have to make allowances for some who may unexpectedly wake from sleep in the middle of a full blown insulin reaction. I do have much experience in this regard. My lady is also a diabetic, some of the episodes are simply unbelieveable, they can challenge the limits of one's patience and good nature. Actions and thoughts that you and I normally carry calmly inside, can erupt in an incredibly out of scale fashion. Other times the outbursts include statements that the person affected doesn't feel or believe at all. I do know that Skip is a diabetic, does experience this type of event from time to time and although some of the points expressed might be floating around in his thoughts, not generally to the degree that may be stated in some of his his late night communications. While I do realize, some of the subjects of his tirade can feel rightfully entitled to a more than gentle response, I think in general, we, as responsible adults, need to recognize when someone utters something that seems more than a bit out of character, we should maybe take a minute to chill and then ask for clarification before going on the attack/defense. I do believe that if you re-read his initial posting you will notice a definite change in the tenor of his writing, the subject changes completely, from having a good time to voicing concern for Andreas who had to drive his F-car back to the city in the prevailing conditions to disappointment that some didn't make it to the function and and then into the outburst that seemingly explodes out of nowhere. I do realize that he has not issued an explanation or apology, and while I do feel that there is a need for one, sometimes individuals find admitting this sort of thing VERY embarassing. In watching from the sidelines his comments were met with a rather strong response, not to say that it isn't understandable on the face of the situation, yet this can also lead to someone taking the defensive posture. You may argue defense/offense but what the hell, life is short, "Can't we all just get along? " (8->}

A person that I regarded as being quite wise once simply stated, "Patience and tolerence".

Best regards to all, and to all a good night,
Bill