On Michael's move (Spoiler)...

My brain says, "I agree", but my heart says... "FU Montoya"

 

Whilst MS was somewhat foolish to warm brakes up in the tunnel JPM was definitely at fault. Even if he was challenging for a postiion and thus keen for MS not to get away the safety car had at least another half a lap to go before peeling off.

As such, there was plenty of time to warm his brakes up safely away from MS. why did he need to be anywhere need MS's rear end?

Furthermore, behind JPM was the Renault and BAR of Trulli and Button. As such, as soon as they got to the start finish straight JPM would have had to move over under blue flags. He therefore didn't need to warm his brakes prior to the safety car pitting as he could have just waited to the first bend. If they had been somewhat cooler it wouldn't have made any difference as these two guys would have been doing the 'outbraking'.

The only reason the marshalls have not punished him is that MS was slightly to blame also for starting the manouevre off in a dark tunnel.

 

I just love a good old, unbiased discussion....

 

Here's another point to ponder: I believe it was Trulli who pointed out that the pavement inside the tunnel is generally quite slippery. However, at racing speed, the tremendous downforce generated by the cars tends to overcome that. But at the reduced speed behind the safety car, there is far less downforce and thus drivers need to be more careful.

Although I'm more a Schumacher fan than a Montoya fan, I blame this one on Michael. But as has been pointed out, Ferrari's failure to bring him into the pits at that point would have doomed him to, at best, a third-place finish anyway.

 

A couple of interesting points that have been missed:
1. If you saw the footage, Montoya was close (too close) to MS the entire SC period. Probably enjoying the only time he could really "pressure" Michael.
2. THe lights were still on on the SC, which means at least another lap. Please see #1
3. MS had been accel. and braking for at least half a lap before the incident. Please see #1
4. MS's lockup pushed him outside. When he got rolling again, he came back to the racing line. Contact occured a long ways away from the lockup and JPM hit him after he returned to the line. Please see #1.
5. They were many turns away from the Start/Finish. If for some reason the SC would have ducked out (not likely since they give a lap notice by turning OFF the lights), they still had plenty of time to set up. Please see #1.
6. For those of you that keep bringing up the Coulthard incident, what race were you watching? Running at half the pace speed (with no mechanical problem) in the rain is idiotic. Good thing someone stopped MS before he got ahold of DC.
7. For the MS bashers (WAH, WAH, WAH, nobody is allowed to pass MS, WAH, WAH), I guess you did not see the beaut of a pass that Kimi pulled on MS. Set up nice, passed clean, MS gave up the position. Sato - quick move, got position, small bump, everyone moves on. Juana-be needs to study some tapes.
8. JPM is an idiot. Poking your nose in (while closing you eyes), when you do not have position, does not constitute ability, "passion", daring, fast, etc., etc., blah blah. It means you are dangerous, plain and simple. How many punts by Juanabe do you have to witness before you are convinced of his lack of ability?
9. I know all of Montoya's problems are due to a conspiracy by the FIA. I guess he is the only one "they" are picking on, because he seems to be the only one with all these issues. Hmmmm....
Jim
pssst! hey Jaunny, just a little tip - you can NOT pass under the SC.

 

I saw it as two mistakes: MS doing that right at the entry to the tunnel, and JPM's reaction to avoid him when JPM didn't catch his own brakes. I don't think he was trying to pass at all - it looked like he was trying *not* to hit MS. Just a bad reaction: wrong place, wrong time.

No one is getting uppity at Fisichella when he RAN OVER Coulthard's car.

I don't like JPM either, but I don't really think MS can say JPM meant to do it.

It was a 'racing incident!!'

I was uber-pissed not because of this thread title, but because the sports news on TV showed MS crashed on a pre-show headline before I got to see the race at 9pm... :-(

At least there was enough other stuff to make it exciting.

 

If MS had pitted, he'd have been back in the line, behind Jarno and Jensen ... on a track with no real passing opportunities.

As it was, he was leading the race and, more importantly, leading the line of cars piled up behind the SC. Once the track went green, he'd have had a clear track in front of him and a relatively light fuel load. A series of 1:14 laps might have given him enough of a gap over the refuelled Renault and BAR (who had back markers in front of them in line) to pull a quick spash-and-dash and maybe pick up a position.

Unlikely he could have gotten past both JT and JB, but it's even less likely he could have passed on that track.

 

Maybe because Fisichella was in the middle of driving through a large cloud of smoke that prevented him from seeing ANYTHING? Am I missing something here?

 

I've got the pitchfork, who's got the torches?
Smokin' Sato should have been flagged or called in - it was begging to blow.

 

Love it when a plan comes together...

MS and his antics on track, JPM and his antics on and off track...

Must say it does reinforce there is a god...

Yes MS had all the cards, but folded his hand by sillyness in the tunnel with the one guy capable of not playing his game... PRICELESS!

A great LAUGH indeed! Who is more dull? JPM for taking the bait or MS for offerring himself up for JPM, fully within the rules? Shockingly the stewards appear to agree MS can only be soooo clever. Sooner or later his tactics cost him a race or two, but win him many more then are lost...

As the stewards determined 'no fault' just another racing incident. Cleary there is enough foolishness in this incident to go around, but none worthy of discussion as it has been determined to have been a racing incident. MS's crown still adorns his head, but perhaps in need of some polish...

 

The accident was 100% MS fault. He already knew he couldn't win the race, so he took a risk to "brake check" JPM. But, JPM has quick reactions and avoided crashing his car . Poor little MS was not so quick and crashed his Ferrari...poor baby. MS has been doing this type of crap for years and it bite him this time. Remember his taking out his rival in Japan a few years ago. MS should be sanctioned by the FIA for this crap ! If JPM had the car MS has, there would be no close races....JPM would be CHAMP! Hail to JPM!

 

I was comparing the two 'accidents' as I saw them... you could blame JPM for his swerve just as much (or less, IMO) than Fisichella going into the cloud so fast. Everyone else was slowing down! So I'm saying barreling into the cloud so fast was dumber than swerving and not braking; but people are not getting on Fisichella's case about it.

 

THink about it guys. What was Montoya's motivation for following so close during the entire SC period? He was a lap down. He never was able to run with the leaders. His position (a lap down) was not in jeapardy. They were miles away from the restart. Any ideas?

How about:
1. Photo op showing how he "challenged" MS?
2. Pull off another idiotic passing move when the SC exits, only to be blue flagged a turn later?
3. "Hey MS, look at me! Look at me! I can't run with you under real racing conditions so I will **** with you while I can!"
4. "I'm at least as good as Senna - and he stopped Mansell! I can stop MS!"

Who knows what went on in that vacant air space inside JPM's helmet. I fear that someday he will pay the ultimate price for his stupid maneuvers. I just hope he doesn't kill someone else in the process.

Jim

 

if, if, if ......JPM will never be a champion, he signed with MC laren, you know.

you forget what senna did with Prost and prost with Senna..

this is the most stupid reply i have seen, sorry, say that MS is a baby and 'he knew already he couldn't win the race', come on man, who are you to think such thinks....

 

My three comments:

1) I once heard the question: "What's the fastest thing a Formula One car can do?" The answer: "Brake". When MS hit the brakes hard, JPM was in trouble, FAST.

2) The fact that JPM was a lap behind is not relevant. Trulli and Button would have been furious if JPM was forcing them to drop further behind MS before the restart. Yes, the restart was still half a lap ahead, but I think JPM was obliged to keep it close.

3) Most importantly, when following the SAFETY CAR, the primary focus should be on SAFETY. There had been an accident in the tunnel. There had been course workers on the track cleaning up the debris. If the cars are warming up their tires and brakes, darting all over the place, they are not concentrating on safety, and if you accidentally run over someone pushing a broom when you are only doing 75 mph, he's still dead. Until the safety car leaves the track, I would think that the drivers should have to follow it in procession. Then give them a lap to do their warmup.

 

Not being perceptive enough to know what was in Schuey's mind, I just read the full statements from both Montoya and Schumacher, and the Stewards' report. I also note that the Stewards had access to data from the cars. Montoya, Schumacher, and the Stewards all come to a different conclusion that you do, and none of them felt compelled to use sarcastic and demeaning language.

I guess I'm just not smart enough to understand the difference.

 

Just to add fire to the fuel I think JPM does not have any real driving abilities. Through out his career he has been given cars that outclassed all other in the series. So he kept performing well due to the cars merit.

So when Williams pace was not cutting it for JPM he wanted to move to Mclaren. Too bad McLaren have a one way ticket to the dump. So now JPM wants to get out of his ontract with McLaren for next year and move to a team with some pace so he can continue his ridiculous driving stunts. ( www.f1live.com )

There are many people that will defend JPM. There are always too sides to a story. But JPM probably will never win a F1 world driver's championship if he does not get another car that out paces every other.... A FERRARI... It will never happen because even Luca, Ross, and Todt think he is stupid.

Lets not forget that Schumacher moved to Ferrari and struggled all those year to help develop the team along with many others to a championship team.

I think part of the reason why JPM pulls such stunts is to attract attention to himself. Its the only way he can survive. Schumacher won't even lose any sleep over this race and return to business at usual. Whether or not the incident at Monaco was MS or JPM's fault (I still think JPM was to blame) has already been decided by the race stewards... race incedent... no need for action. So now the press and the rumor mills will have a field day twisting this story untill next week when Schumacer more dittermined than ever will rein supreme. While JPM will mange either a 3rd by scaring the pants of a driver that cares for his life with a stupid move or end up a back marker like he does most of the time. Keep on keeping on JPM... you will never be world champion. Just my $0.02

 

As an aside, do you think the ferrari really is the best F1 car anymore? It's certainly very reliable, but are the specs up to the BAR/Williams/Renault?

 

About the MS / JPM incident: JPM was already 1 lap down, and MS was in the lead (although he had a pit stop coming up). According to Trulli (who saw it) said:

"Montoya wasn't leaving any space between himself and the Ferrari. They were really fast down to Mirabeau. I thought 'maybe they're going to crash'."

JPM should have stayed off the Ferrari's ass; he was a back marker, and wasn't challenging for position. There was no reason for him to ride up on MS the way he did. MS said he was warming up the brakes and tires throughout the incident lap, and the lap before.

 

Why don't we start a petition to terminate MS from Ferrari so we can get a driver that drives in a sportsmanlike manner !

 

Because they are all dead or retired Frank. THAT's "Why". LOL!

Good point, IMO.

 

I think any car is only as good as its performance. So on the last race the Ferrari was 3rd behind, BAR in 2nd and Renault in 1st.

Each car is different on a different track and on different tyres.
The Bridgestones behave very differently than the Michellins. That having been said no car can run without tyres and Ferraris are better suited both commercially and performance wise on Bridgestones.

Williams always has engine problems and is simply not quick enough. Montoya and Ralf have said that themselves on several occassions.

BAR is a young team with a good competitive car. It has pace but once again Sato's engine blew up due to over heating proving they are not the best on the track.

Renault has the makings of the old Benetton team which Schumacher led to victory before he joined Ferrari. Make no mistake the renaults are goods cars. They have been improving sice the beginning of this season. The Renaults are second behind the Ferraris and they are catching up.

The Ferraris are in top positions both in the contructors and drivers world championships. They are the most reliable. They are the most consistent. Thus defacto according to me they have to e the better car on the track if you cummulate their performance over the past 6 races.

 

After the tunnel wreck, debris was probably all over the place. He also may have been adjusting the brake bias to heat certian brakes or tires. So the is a case of JMP either not paying attention or just being to damn close.

One question....

Why does JM think that speeding up and slowing down is unusuall??? Racers have been doing it for billions of years. JM does it himself. That whole was to damn close and not paying attention = @sshole.

 

What was he thinking? The same thing as everyone other racer in the world. Warming brakes and tires is just somthing you do. If Wann Mon was too close how is it MS fault??? Debris from the wreck probably caused the lock up.