On Michael's move (Spoiler)...

You are too far into "hate" mode to state reason. Yes at the start drivers are 100%. But what happens when there is a false start or a yellow? You have to back off and chill. You can't go 100% under a caution, because you can't pass. So how can you go "full out" when the rules say "don't pass"?

As for RS and Alonso, Alonso made a decision to pass in a risky place, the boys on the tele all took a deep breath when they saw what he was doing. If RS was just going slow because he wanted to or because his car was ill for a while, then yes, he has blame all over him. But if he was keeping a pace {a couple of seconds off of a leaders time} then FA tried a foolish pass, on the outside of a turn with only one "lane" too many marbles or too much "green" track makes those passes fail, not the driver being passed. Come to think of it. Didn't JM try an outside move a few races ago on a "green" line and end up eating grass? Then trying to blame somone else for the pass? That Montoyyya is always in the thick of things, isn't he? It makes foe excitment, and also dangerous situations. I'm not calling for blood or a ban/fine but he does get mixed up in almost every even on and off track. How "bright" is a guy that walks into a 250lb camera man right in front of him the scream out "You broke my head!, this f***ing guy broke my head!" While his flavor of the month holds him back. The guy is a few muffins short of a basket when it comes to common sense.
If Montoya falls in the woods, does anyone care?
We just hope he gets lost.

 

"How do you know he was trying to pass? As opposed to simply not trying to rear end him? Either way, MS could have just let him by and he would be penalized, etc. People are screaming that Montoya is at fault he is not if he did not rear end him. No one has shown evidence that he did that."

Why would jm try to drive past a car that was having a steering problem in the tunnel? Is the guy stupid? He should have slowed down. And I thing when MS whell "unlocked" the car went to the side {right" due to the wheel doing it's job now.

So you are saying jm didn't come into contact with MS? Because even if jm hit MS from the side, JM isn't allowed to pass, so why didn't he use his brakes? He tried to pass other than to slow down and that is my beef. He made a bad choice and then got "into" another car. The guy is in the wrong and that is very clear. Where contact was made makes no difference, he took out the leader because he was too close/not paying attention/ made a bad choice. The End. Now go to bed. It's been a long hard day and you need your rest.

 

Past incidents are only ad hominem attacks.
Ad hominem as in "against the man"? My latin is poor.

 

Yes, it doesn't address the current situation.

 

My statement is MS's car shot to the side when traction came back. And if JM wasn't there, there would be no wreck. My beef is JM tried to drive around a slowing car instead of stop. And that put him in MS space. There. Done.

 

You tell them 62 250 GTO! Montoya is a spoiled little kid and constantly acts like one. I have no respect for him. Even the guys on Speedvision said as much about Montoya’s ranting at Imola! MS is the most serious, dedicated driver out there, and it irks all the MS want-a-be’s that they can’t match him.

 

from www.f1live.com
Michael Schumacher and Juan Pablo Montoya - who collided in the dimly-lit tunnel, won't exchange words. ''I don't think we have anything to talk about,'' said the latter Colombian. He added: ''If he wants to talk to me I'll stand there. But I'm pretty fixed in my mind what happened and what I think about it.''

The colombian cry baby is too chicken to talk because he knows he made a mistake and Schumacher does not even gove two craps about what JPM thinks.

Schumacher will for the long history of the sport be rememberred as one of the greatest drivers inthe sport. While JPM will fade away in the thin tets of the history books with his lack luster performance and hisstupid driving antics. The only way JPM will be remembered is if he crashes and kills someone (hopefully himself) due to his reckless driving

 

Yawn ...

1) Agree. It was naive and stupid of MS to put himself at risk in the tunnel. Also he could have simply let JPM past and then repassed him. Technically JPM should never have hit him, but if you are leading a race you should not do something that might throw the result into the toilet ... MS did just that.

2) Disagree, he is not that talented.

Pete

 

JPM broke no rule by being in that spot.

 

Actually he did. You are not allowed to pass under yellow flag positions. A safety car is a full course yellow ... thus passing is strictly prohibited!

Pete

 

How did he pass? MS was in front always.

 

I talked a buddy of mine who is a major NASCAR fan to take in the F1 race at Monaco and come away from the DARK SIDE! I talked to him today and he said, "That Montoya guy would do great in NASCAR the way he drives!" I was rolling on the floor. He continued, "But If he pulled that stuff like he did in the tunnel, I know a couple of good ol' boys who would take him out back and beat some sense into him!" I was crying by this time. "Schumacher should have at least made Montoya eat his helmet, instead of the back wall of the garage." (I had this image of MS running out onto the track and wizzing his $60,000 Schubert (sp?) at JPM on the next lap!) "Didn't Gordon basically match him in times at Indy - in HIS car?" How perceptive was this guy? It's not that dificult to note the diference between right and wrong - after all, this from a NASCAR fan! What does that t-shirt say? Too dumb for the symphony, too smart for NASCAR - F1 fan.
Jim

 

lol that is very funny
So true though
The two are a perfect match.
The worthless Montoya should be sent of to the worthless NASCAR series

 

Not in the footage I saw. JPM got right up along side MS, thus was passing MS.

Now this is where I believe MS made a mistake or had already lost control of his car because MS's car hit the SIDE of JPM's car and this caused the main accident.

I actually believe that JPM hit MS earlier and the TV footage I watched did not show that ...

Pete

 

Even if he was even, (which I strongly disagree with, from looking at the scenes) I thought passing was getting "past" another person? Whatever, that still doesn't put him at fault for any part of the crash. That puts him at fault for attempting to pass during a safety car, big whoop. MS still initiated the crash. You think JPM hit MS earlier? I've watched the clip many times. The first time they hit is right at the apex of the kink.

So you are faulting JPM for a crash that was not caught on camera? Interesting.

 

Again all you guys can do is critize JPM for his attitude and whining based on your personal opinion, but NO ONE cares to address what he has accomplished in the past three years in F1.

Needless to say, you guys have no comments on it my earlier post:

OK, back to the FACTS.

In the past three years combined (2001, 2002, 2003), JPM has the third most driver's point after MS and RB.

Does that count for anything in your book?

In 2002, the year that Ferrari was super dominant, JPM finished in the top 5 in 13 out of the 14 races he completed, with (4) 2nd places.

Does that mean anything to you in terms of consistency?

In 2003, JPM finished in the top 4 in 10 of the 13 races he completed, with 2 wins and (4) second places.

Again, these facts must mean absolutely nothing to you.

Therefore, relying on the facts, which other driver besides MS and RB can you judge to be a better driver than JPM?

 

I find this logic utterly amazing!

For example, basically you guys are saying that the 8th or 15th seed is better than the 3rd seed even though the 3rd seed has more collective points/winnings. Smiliar to a tennis or golf player, even though JPM is seeded 3rd based on his track record, you guys are saying he has no talent and almost any other guy seeded lower is better.

What logical rational are you guys using for this anaylsis?

How do you judge talent then if not by winning?

 

I think JPM would be a tremendous asset for Minardi!

 

Mr. Payne,
I think you hit the nail on the head without knowing it. I mentioned earlier in this thread that MS was on the racing line when JPM made contact. THe racing line at the apex is close to the wall. I know you think MS moved over, but, as I said, I think once his wheel was turning again after the lockup and push, MS just returned to the racing line. After watching the replay over and over, MS was back on line and JPM was still moving to the wall in an attempt to avoid. JPM's left front to MS's left rear, and the rest is history.
Jim

 

Er, hitting the car infront was HIS fault. Now I will say again I do not give full blame to JPM for the incident because what MS was doing was stupid.

Actually if you had every competed in a motor race you would realise that it is indeed a very big whoopie, and atleast a stop and go penalty if not sent home and no more racing for the day (in a club meeting).

The footage I saw never showed the full incident ... it started with only the front half of MS's car ... how can we know if JPM and MS had already made contact?

Thus in closing (as you are easily confused ), I think 80% of the blame has to sit on MS's shoulders for being a complete fool.

Pete

 

We have discussed the relative merits of JPM's driving ability many times before, but just for you I will cover the points I have previously made.

Well yes it does, so JPM is not a complete toad, but he has also been driving if not the second best car the third best. Nobody else has a chance because their cars completely suck ... except Renault who are getting better and now BAR. F1 for many years has been about the 3 top teams, McLaren, Williams and Ferrari. If you do not drive for those teams, you are trying to look good so they will select you. You have NO chance of winning a WC or hardly even a race in any other team.

Thus does this really make JPM look good?. Well it makes him look better than RS (MS's brother) but my opinion of RS is that my mother could out drive him ... half serious here as my mother once won her class in a hillclimb .

Thus all JPM has to do is keep his car on the race track until the end of a race and he is almost guaranteed a top 5 finish ... because all the other teams are either so slow or their cars will break. Look at RB ... completely useless and yet he is second in the WC.

See above comments.

Hmmm, Kimi, Alonso, Webber, Button, maybe Trulli, and maybe even Sato.

Why do you think Williams have let JPM go?. Not sure why McLaren (Ron) has signed him on but probably something to do with sponsorship and maybe he can see what you can see

Time will tell, and if anybody can make JPM in to WC material Ron will. McLaren will be JPM's last chance ... otherwise good bye and he will not be missed.

Pete

 

http://www.formula-1.co.il/video.php

 

I seem to remember Coulthard slowly significantly and REMAINING on the racing line. In the rain, the last thing you want to see is a slower car materializing in front of you out of nowhere.

Schummacher has made some mistakes, but Spa was not one of them. JPM, a lap down thought, ?payback time for Imola.?