Any former Pantera owners here? | Page 3 | FerrariChat

Any former Pantera owners here?

Discussion in 'Other Italian' started by TestShoot, Nov 1, 2003.

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  1. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    I got 267RWHP, which I figure is about 335HP at the crank. But I got 322lbs of torque--love that torque! Pretty good for a 32yr old car.

    You can see picutres of all the cars and dyno sheets here: http://www.atsracing.net/ferraridynoday.htm
     
  2. BigAl

    BigAl F1 Veteran

    Mar 17, 2002
    6,146
    TX
    Full Name:
    GSgt Hartman
    interesting, didn't know that about Ford. All the years I've owned the car and all the people I've talked to, no one knew that.
    I figured it was on the DeTomaso side: started the car, let it sit and then finshed it months later.
     
  3. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    By the end of 1973 Ford wanted out of the Pantera program. It may be that ALL of the 1974 models were actually '73. I do know this, due to emission laws, a lot of the CA guys will get their cars retitled to a 1973 (because legally they can because of the build date), that way they don't have to worry about the 74 and up emission laws.

    I think Ford was stupid for giving up on the Pantera. It has been the only real competitor to the Corvette they ever had. Now there is the Ford GT but it's 3 times the prices of a Vette, whereas the Pantera was originally about twice as much.
     
  4. Murph

    Murph Formula 3

    Apr 26, 2004
    1,542
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    Matt,

    '74s are exempt from smog in CA this year with the rolling 30 year smog exemption.

    You might be right on the titling of the '74s though...
    My titled '74, from day one, has a Dec. '73 VIN with a high unit number.

    By '74 Ford had a hard time getting rid of the remaining Panteras. Some of those cars sold at discounts of $2000 on a $11,000 car. It seemed Ford never could figure out how to market this car to the American public. It started from day one, marketing the car through the Lincoln Division didn't really connect them with the right market.
     
  5. wax

    wax Five Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jul 20, 2003
    51,459
    SFPD
    Full Name:
    Dirty Harry
    #55 wax, Jun 13, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    I doubt most Americans even realized what a monocoque construction was! I don't think the hybrid nature was a turnoff, if anything it's a plus--no costly maintenance for an expensive Italian engine. What hurt the Pantera more than anything was the bad press it was getting. Pretty much all the reviews agreed on a few aspects--it looked good, went fast, and handled well. But then they started in on the cooling, and the electrical system, and this and that, etc. Things that that really weren't that hard to fix, but did turn off potential buyers when you realize how expensive the car was to begin with--people wanted quality.

    Remember, the Pantera went from the drawing board to the road in 9 months--without computers! That's pretty atonishing. Ford was putting a lot of pressure on DeTomaso to get the cars to market as quickly as possible (fear of other potential mid-engined cars beating them to the market). I believe if they would have given DeTomaso another full year, it would have been a very solid car. Two things it couldn't get around though--rising insurance rates (effectively killed the muscle car era), and record high fuel prices.
     
  7. Doug

    Doug Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,473
    Louisville KY
    Full Name:
    Doug
    The biggest problem was that they were sold in Lincoln-Mercury dealers, not Ford. The typical person that you would find in a Lincoln showroom was not going to be a Pantera buyer.
    Also, the smog equipment and weight that was added to comply with US regulations in 1973 didn't help much either. The car gained weight and lost big HP.
     
  8. Murph

    Murph Formula 3

    Apr 26, 2004
    1,542
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Kevin
    #58 Murph, Jun 14, 2004
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Pimp me...
    Thought you guys might get a kick out of this.
    Check out those neat custom vent drain tubes.
    This was a Barris creation for Jackie Jackson of the Jackson 5.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Oh my God, that is hilarious! Where in the heck did you find that photo? Where do the pipes go to!
     
  10. speedingpenguin

    speedingpenguin Karting

    Apr 6, 2004
    86
    lol
    Anyone heard of Pat Mical?
    www.patsauto.com
    freakin 1,100 Horsepower.....
    I hang around his shop sometimes....right now i'm helping his brother out with his twin turbo S10 :)
     
  11. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Yep, I know of Pat. I saw some awesome pictures of his Si conversion he brought to Vegas. Looks like he did an excellent job except for the ridiculous Mickey Mouse on the hood.
     
  12. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    Doug, it looks like your former Pantera is now for sale on Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6472&item=2482264965&rd=1
     
  13. csasso

    csasso Rookie

    Nov 5, 2003
    1
    Can anyone here give an objective comparison of a 308 and a Pantera? While I believe the Pantera is the clear winner in the cost of ownership department, assuming both are stock, how do they compare in the handling and overall performance?

    Also, I have heard that often times people are disappointed by the 308 because even something as ordinary as a current Mustang offers greater performance. With this in mind, can a Pantera be brought up to current performance levels? With the 351C modified, some improved brakes, and modern bushing, I would think a Pantera could give many modern sports cars serious competition for a few thousand dollars of upgrades. Any comments?

    Chris
     
  14. GhostRider

    GhostRider Formula Junior

    Dec 20, 2002
    999
    Tulsa, OK
    Full Name:
    Matt
    At one point I myself debated between a 308 and a Pantera. The No.1 reason I chose the Pantera was because of the far more affordable maintenance. But the power was a close second--no way a 308 will keep up with a Pantera, stock for stock. And since most 308's stay stock, and most Panteras don't, the gap widens further.

    As for the handling performance, that aspect I can't comment on. I've driven both, but have not pushed either hard in that way. Big Al should be able to comment on that, he owns both. I know another person that owns both as well, if you want, message me, and I'll give you his email address.

    I will say this too, if you are into modifying the Pantera, there are lots of parts to do that, not just the easily modded 351C either, lots of suspension, brakes, gears, clutches, everything you can imagine, to make an old Pantera a serious machine to contend with, in contemporary terms.
     
  15. Murph

    Murph Formula 3

    Apr 26, 2004
    1,542
    SoCal
    Full Name:
    Kevin
  16. Valdi

    Valdi Karting

    May 30, 2004
    65
    Iceland
    Full Name:
    Valdi
    DeTomaso has nothing simular to Lamborghini other than they are both Italian!
    DeTomaso is a better car if anything ...

    ''poor mans lambo'' my ass ...
     
  17. Valdi

    Valdi Karting

    May 30, 2004
    65
    Iceland
    Full Name:
    Valdi
    and they aint exactly cheap , :) going from 40-80 thousand and more for early 70´s models .
    poor mans lambo hahahaha :)
     
  18. Pantera1523

    Pantera1523 Formula Junior

    Mar 17, 2004
    432
    Virginia
    Full Name:
    Scott Carpenter
    I currently own both a 1971 Pantera and a 1985 308 QV.

    I have owned the Pantera for 3 years now and I just recently purchased the 308. My Pantera, like most out there, has been modified from original. The body and exterior looks and is completely stock, the only change has been to go with 16" and 17" wheels and tires but they are still the OEM design. Where my car is no longer stock is in the engine compartment...

    The previous owner installed a stroker kit that took it to 377 CI. I have had it dynoed twice and both times was able to put down 320 RWHP. This was at two different facilities.

    If all you care about is going faster than the other guy then I guess the Pantera would be a good choice for you. It has exotic looks and you can modify it pretty much to your hearts content. I have seen Panteras with Twin turbos, Chevy Big Block motors, more modern Ford 4.6L and even 5.4L engines, and the president of my local Pantera club recently installed a twin super-charged 351C into his GT5-S Pantera. I believe he is looking at somewhere around 600+ HP once he gets it sorted out.

    However there really is something to this whole Ferrari thing... I've always wanted one since I was a kid. And while I love driving my Pantera I equally love driving the Ferrari. Even though I know the Ferrari is "slower" sometimes it is more fun to drive.

    In the handling department I would have to say they are equal, however I must also point out that I have yet to take either to a track. This is just based on my personal experience of "spirited" driving where I in no way push either car anywhere near my nor their limits. I plan on tracking both I just haven't had the time yet.

    Public places with either car can be an interesting experience... For example, I am more likely to be approached and have questions about the car by strangers, say at a gas station or something, if I am driving the Pantera. I don't know if it is because they just don't know what it is or if the Ferrari is more well known.

    I have yet to have a negative experience in either car. In the Pantera it is usually "What is it?" or "Can you start it up so I can hear it?"... My Pantera has Hall Big Bore Exhaust and it is LOUD. In fact when my wife went for her first ride in the 308 her first comment was "wow we can talk without yelling".

    Considering that the 308 has is at close to a 3 litre disadvantage to the Pantera, it still offers exceptional performance. It is an absolute blast to let this car rev and it feels so stable and nimble at all speeds. Plus in my case the top comes off so that is one area it beats the Pantera.

    Currently I don't feel guilty driving the 308 all the time... it is made easier on me by the fact that first it is new to me (only have owned it 3 months) and second the Pantera is currently in North Carolina at my wife's uncles shop having a new oil pan installed and having a broken rocker arm stud fixed. I imagine it should be back before summer is over and then when I want to go for a ride I will then have a difficult decision to make.

    Difficult it is because they are both a blast to drive. Personally I don't think I could pick a favorite. They are so very different that it is hard to compare them. As I said before if all you care about it speed? Get a Pantera... modified similarly to mine you can play with pretty much any modern performance car all day long, and you will enjoy the fact that you don't see another Pantera at every stoplight you come to like you do Vettes around here.

    I doubt my rambling really made too much sense but hopefully I was able to shed some light from a perspective of someone that owns both of these fabulous cars.

    Scott
     
  19. Doug

    Doug Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,473
    Louisville KY
    Full Name:
    Doug
    With all this talk about Panteras, I just found out the other day that my old monster is on EBAY. I traded it and my Harley about 15 months ago to the current owner for a 95% restored 512bb. I was the second owner of the car and the auction does not do it justice. The thing put down 330hp and 380 ft.lbs to the rear wheels with a mild street cam in a 396" stroker. Drop in a different cam and the car would easily put down over 400 rwhp. The car was rust free with lots of great mods. At no reserve, David is taking a chance. Under $30k this car is a steal. I I had the space, I would buy it back. I miss the brute power.
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2482264965&category=6472
     
  20. JBsZ06

    JBsZ06 Formula Junior

    Dec 6, 2003
    761
    Those are some huge fender flares...

    Did you have them installed?
     
  21. Doug

    Doug Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,473
    Louisville KY
    Full Name:
    Doug
    All the body work was done at Hall Pantera in Los Angeles by the first owner. It is the steel GT5 kit that cost @$11,000 with flares, 17' wheels and coilovers if I recall from the receipts. The stroked engine and Haltech fuel injection was done at Wilkinson Pantera for @$16,000 if I recall. The car has all receipts dating back to 1972 and every registration slip since then. When I bought the car, there was no title, just the original pink slip. My DMV had to call California to make sure it was proof of ownership.
     
  22. steveirl

    steveirl Formula 3

    Dec 29, 2003
    1,163
    ireland
    Full Name:
    steve
    I know Pat Mical well, a top guy, what he doesnt know about Panteras is not worth talkin about, a good sales guy too which can be a bad thing if you dont keep your wits about you, I bought a new motor for my GT5S from him last year and he flew over here to Ireland to fit it for me, I have kept my car totally stock in appearance aside from the motor which is a 392 stroker svo, cant really tell yet how much better than the old cleveland it is as I am still running it in, but the original engine was rebuilt by the previous owner and dynoed at 400hp so it was never short of grunt, I must say buying the Pantera was a dream come true for me two years ago, I cant ever imagine selling it, totally unique cars.
    steve
     
  23. kaamacat

    kaamacat Formula 3

    Jun 13, 2004
    1,623
    Cumming GA
    Full Name:
    BobR
    Sure are..... 1974 with Group5 kit applied. (See home.bellsouth.net/p/pwp-kaamacat then under photo albums).

    Car is very reliable, handles great (since the suspension update from 74'koni to AldenEagle's). Not the greatest if you wanna sit in 100% humidity stopped traffic. Needs some upgraded seats with side bolster support.

    If I can only now replace the wheels the PO had on there (they just dont look right)......Im 100%.


    Bob
     

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