"100 Greatest Drivers of All Time"......

That makes sense. Thanks Jon
Fred

 

At least Rosberg had some good scraps with his team mate who wasn't under orders to bend over and take it a la MS and poor lap dog Rubens. Yaaawn. Roseberg only won once that year because there was a lot more competition. Gimmeee the early eighties over the current season any day. And you can't count any of the WC that MS picked up in the Benetton, waaaaaay too much cheating going on with pitstops, software etc.

 

I think that Senna is top 5, not #1, his legend preceeds him. Fangio is by far the alltime best IMHO, Jody Sheckter should slide a notch or two up. Gurney is over-rated.

Some incredible names on that list.

Who said Eddie Irvine? 'Irv the Swerve'??? c'mon lol

 

I agree with that. I only started to watch F1 five years ago, so, I cant really comment on many of those drivers. I've read a lot about Fangio and Senna, and watched past and historical races. However, I think it is clear that MS is a genius in F1. Inside and outside of the car. His skill is unbelievable. And sometimes people say that a lot of MSs success is thanks to Ferrari, and to that I say bull#$%$. The 2004 Ferrari is perhaps the best race car ever built (the 2002 claiming that title 2 years ago according to F1 magazine, while the 2004 is faster (obviously) and more reliable). Make no mistake about it. Without MS the Ferrari cars probably wouldnt be the best cars on the track. He has been a fundamental key to the development of these unstoppable machines. While it can be argued (and I would still disagree) that other drivers have or had more raw driving skill than MS, I think this is what sets him apart from the other drivers.

 

If I remember this article correctly it was the "Greatest F1 drivers of all time", thus Nuvolari, Rosemeyer and many, so many others can not be included.

In fact the greatest drivers of all time would have to include rally, hillclimb, sportscar drivers, etc., even dirt oval races ... it would be extremely difficult to compare a mediocre F1 driver with a dirt racer ...

We also need to understand that a great driver does not necessarily mean the most winning driver, as what we are talking about here is skill level and commitment. This is why Prost always ends up a few behind where stats show that he should be ... because Prost was all about winning WC's and points not winning every qualifying battle and race.

Senna then makes perfect sense to me being number 1 because even compared to MS, his commitment to winning EVERYTHING was greater and more passionate. MS in his early days was more like Senna, but lately has backed off (or matured) to a WC winner and thus is accepting of 2nd when required. In fact I believe MS would have won a WC for Ferrari about 3 or 2 years earlier if he had been more Prost like instead of trying to win everything ...

I must say that I am surprised that Jack Brabham is so highly rated as a DRIVER. Very clever man and one I admire but not a gifted driver in my book. All his championships were won in the right car at the right time, ie. Cooper when all other teams had their head up the front engined arse , and his own cars when all others were still arguing over engine size and Ferrari stupidly tried to race a sportscar engine in F1. As Surtes has said over and over again until he is blue in the face, if Ferrari had raced a 158 with a 2.4 v6 engine in it they would have possible won. The 2.4 test car that he used to get back into shape after his sportscar accident was faster than the v12 ...

My image of Jack was a cunning hard charger driver that once got in front drove an extremely wide car and it took a miracle to pass him ... is that really a top 12 driver?

Pete's opinion

 

I agree 100%.

 

Greatest F1 driver, MS has the trophies to say it... IMHO, MS is #1.

Greatest driver of all time, that can be debated in way too many variables. You have to narrow it down to league. I'd put my money on Jarno Trulli vs MS if you throw the two of them into VW Passat and told them to drive from Long Island to Newark. MS is F1, the ultimate professional when it comes to building a winning team, in F1.

Greatest driver of all time, well based on some of these baised arguments, my nephew. Man no one can touch him in PS2's Gran Turismo 3. Wait a sec, its the bus driver I had when I was 8 never was late to school once. Now if both of them had a F1 car, that would put an end to this discussion. If Senna had lived, if Fangio was born in the modern era, if Hakkinen wasn't given such a great car... most of the arguments here are total rubbish.

Its all about results, like it or not, you are arguing about F1 and despite his personality, what you think of the team, his country, his tatics, Michael Schumacher is the best. F1 crown of being the best driver belongs to those who back it up with tangible results, not what ifs or biased opinion. Michael is more rich with F1 crowns than anyone will ever be.

RocketBoy

As stated earlier, I like Irvine though would never put him on the list. But that's me, I rate the driver's style. But the argument here is who is the best.

 

This is more of a general question. Martin Brundle seemed to race a very good season against MS in 92. Can anyone comment on that? It does look like MS beat Brundle slightly in races that they both finished, but certainly not the current blowout of MS/RB.

 

You have to remember that Brundle had a lot more expericence at that point and MS was in his only 2nd season. Yet Brundle did seem to be the closest to him in terms of teammates. MS felt that Brundle coming into the pits during the SPA 92 Race helped him win his first race due to the tire conditions.

 

IMO, MS needs to be number one, Senna two, and Fangio farther down. Fangio was good, but he raced on a competitive team when F1 still had drivers that participated for a 'nice Sunday drive' instead of a World Championship.

 

Yeah but the guy had Moss as a teammate, raced some excellent other drivers, including the best Ferrari Driver other than MS, in Ascari. In addition he won 24 out of 52 GP's and his final championship at the age of 46. He also won his final championship in Grand Style at the Nurbrighring. Don't sell Fangio short. Picking these guys is very hard, it is easier to pick the best driver of their generation. As John said, had Clark lived what might have he done. In addition, G. Villeneuve was going to go to McLaren in 83 when they were on their way up.

 

So Schumacher now is better than Schumacher then? Obviously yes, I suppose. Does that mean he is better than Senna if their ages were normalized?

 

Just as a reminder: Rosberg won with 5 points over a driver, who hadn't participated half the season due to injury. How is that for an accomplishment?

 

I just got out of the toilet. Now I see the same thing on my computer.

Senna was exciting, almost reckless at times, but so was Ferrari's #27.

#1 MS. No one else ever had the points system changed in order to allow someone else to win. He also took a team that sucked to become one of the greatest teams/dynasty ever in F1. He also knows how to get the most out of a car whenever he needs a quick lap, yet he doesn't abuse his car during the majority of a race: the marks of a true racer.

#2 JMF. The difference is that he went from one good team to another good team to win.

#3 Stewart. His record on and off the track. Hell his record on the track alone makes him third.

#4 Senna. Exciting as hell, but he's no MS.

#5 and below "pick-em."

I for one am not an Al (Richard Petty) Prost fan. Sure he won a lot of races........good for him.

I think #s 4-25 are flawed in that Petty shouldn't be above Brabham, Surtees
and some of the earlier F1 pilots. Those of the 40s-60s are underappreciated IMHO.

 

senna was the best still is the best in the european grandprix at donnington park it started raining everybody had wets on senna was on slicks and passed them all like they were stood still that was the best race i have ever seen you dont see racing now its a procession now more action on the warm up lap than the race

 

Please.... Michael Schumacher is the king of rain.

 

Geezzzz......can you give it a break. Do you have to chime in on every freakin post that doesn't agree with your "first hand knowledge" of Senna vs. Schumacher. I keep forgetting you're part of the test team with Luca Badoer at Maranello and you get to see MS everyday first hand. And of course you are also his personal driving coach as well.

Give it a break....Pete's right you need to consider other people's viewpoints, even if they don't agree with your own.

Other than some karting experience you don't even race yet you act like your the world's foremost authority on everything F1 related.

At least I have actually raced a Ferrari, even if it's far removed from an F1 Ferrari, it's sure closer than some kiddie kart. ANd I have actually raced open wheel even though that is far removed from an F1 car.

Regards,

Jon
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