This what happens to P-cars when a 360CH bites them in the....

Martin,

I do think the inflamatory titling of this thread and wording has a lot to do with it. We both know that comparing a race car to a road car isn't fair, and in stock street class the 996TT and 360 are basically dead even.

Posting in this fashion makes you seem like a snide Porsche hater. Considering the respect that Ferrari garners on most (mature) Porsche forums, I do not think this thread was posted in a very diplomatic fashion.

 

It's a shame about the car. A fun track day turned into a big headache.

 

I just have one question for you :

a) do you believe accidents are more likely at higher speed and with faster cornering and

b) do you believe you are more likely to engage in both on a track than on the public road ?

To me the answer to both the questions above is YES. Meaning accidents are more likely on the track than on a road. So please don't act as if these things are extremely rare things that only happen to gung-ho trackies, they can happen to anyone. It need not even be driver error, there could be an oil slick on the ground, for instance. The requirement for helmets and preferably racing harnesses and protective clothing in properly organised track day events is tacit acknowledgement of the constant possibility of an accident.

Totally agree. I don't "race" or drive too aggressively when I'm on the track, competitive driving is for timed events with placings and prizes. Which is why I've always kept my distance from other cars on the track and hate people following me too closely. I would probably just have spun out onto the run-off unscathed if not for the fact that the other car wasn't keeping a safe distance. But I accept this as part and parcel of track driving - mistakes happen all around, and they're more probable at track speeds.

As I said I don't personally drive too aggressively on the track and give plenty of space to other drivers in cases of spin outs or worse. As such, I'm not likely to crash into your car. My accident was as a result of someone else crashing into me. But unlike you, I accept these things as concomitants of track driving, while they can be made less likely with proper precautions, nothing can eliminate them.

And even if you're of the opinion that the P-car driver shouldn't have driven as he had, you should show a little more sensitivity towards the misfortunes of others. Your callous attitude is obvious in the mocking manner in which you started this thread and your other post.

Just out of curiousity, if you feel the P-car driver deserves no sympathy, why would you have held your tongue if he had been hurt or worse in the accident ? After all, you feel the whole thing was his fault and he "deserves no sympathy" right ? Would you weasel out of your mocking indictments if he had been hurt, because that would be the politically correct thing to do ?

 

"you are right that we don't know our limits but yet when we drive we can feel when we are pushing too hard getting us close to our limit."

Not always. If you drive the car at say 9/10 the car feels loose in every corner. A few more mph on entry or more commonly, a slight off line error may bring you beyond 10/10.

AW

 

Porsche certainly does not have the lock on bad or ego-driven drivers. I was at a Ferrari Challenge event several years ago at Limerock- i think it was still 355s then- and some guy flipped his car on its roof during a practice run.
As to whether this shows the better car, i dunno. It is usually the driver, any bash is not fun, but part of the risk- i take that risk every day, just driving into Manhattan. I dislike bench racing, but i'd find it hard to believe that a 360 challenge car or stradale would be faster than my GT-2, but then, i'm open to being corrected.

 

Good thing for the 360 driver that the Porsche had a bad driver. Otherwise, the Porsche TT would have ran away from the 360 like white on rice! The Ferrari may look better, but very few cars can touch the TT in performance.

 

Martin,

You have the best attitude for track days. A lot of drivers get caught up in the red mist/ego thing, simply lose the plot and then--oops!--off the track they go. Buh-bye!

Anyway, if my past and future students exhibited that same attitude, they'd learn so much faster.

Cheers,

Brian

 

yes what kind of person takes pics of a crashed car to gloat

 

I would put half the blame on the car. For those who have driven a 996 turbo you would know that they are decpetively fast, too smooth for its own good and downright dangerous in the inexperience hands. With awd, psm and all the the other built in driver's aid it causes the driver to proceed with a false security since the car does everything for him, basically point and shoot. My first impression after driving one was that it was a very dangerous car because it generated so much thrust when the power comes on. I think even the modern ferraris communicate better at the limits than a 996 TT.

I prefer my antiquated air cooled normally aspirated 91 Porsche 964 for track events where you can actually feel and hear the car as you work the corners.

 

The 996 was racing the CS in reverse. Not being able to see him, he pulled over and the CS came over the hill a few seconds later and crashed into him.

 

My point was more aimed at the tenor of the post than anything else.

I have spun, gone off, and crashed on track. My most expensive was at an untimed event when surprised by huge brake fade - fluid boiled and pedal went to the floor. In retrospect, I should have sensed a soft pedal earlier and not gone so deep in to the turn. I totaled my Viper, and insurance did cover it, as it was an untimed DE. My biggest lesson was to drive at the limit in a less expensive car! I like to go fast and experience tells me I'm not the only one. I now focus on racing (so I am not endangering old ladies on the street), but someimes I go to DEs and I can assure you that I and many buddies will sometimes run at a race-level pace.

I was mortified, among other dreadful feelings in that big shunt. I have since had many other incidents when racing, some my mistake, some others' mistakes, some debris or oil or coolant on track, some a tire going down or equipment problem, some just a plain mystery. I like to think I have gotten more skilled, but you better believe I have the occasional off when looking for that perfect lap.

I consider it part of learning, as I have found that I have made errors in every endeavor I have undertaken.

Having been there, I take no glee or feeling of superiority when the other guy has an incident. Anyone who does IMO, has at least one of the following:

(1) never REALLY driven at the llimit, except maybe at an autocross;
(2) never ADMITTED making a mistake; and/or
(3) prefers to theorize rather than experience how fast his car is.

None of this is bad, except (2), but this kind of person has no right to yap when the real dogs are playing.

You want to cruise , rather than try to go fast - that's very prudent but sure leaves you no room to criticise when someone who decides to try push the envelope and screws up.

Everyone has a natural morbid fascination with wrecks, and that alone is not offensive. The righteousness that somehow the person "deserved" what happened does offend me

 

Someone who feels exactly as I do and has put it down eloquently. Thank you.

 

Martin, I'll try to make this sound as objective as possible but I do think you're digging a hole by not seeing the other side of the coin.

Yes- some of your points are valid, but in reality not everyone is a PERFECT driver, that's the reason they take it to the track to test their driving limits the car's limits and you wouldn't know your limits until you exceed it one day. I thought the track was the venue to learn and practice. EVERY experience driver has spun at the track, it was just unfortunate that when the driver of this TT spun he hit something solid. It's naive to label any driver who spun as an a**hole.

There is a real difference if he had done a real stupid move as opposed to him just losing it at the limits. Unless we know what really happen it's premature to label the guy.

Did he just overcook a corner or apply too much throttle coming out of a turn?

And even though this is a ferrari board enough with this perceived superiority over porsche owners, every guy I know who owns a ferrari also owns a porsche. And it is an undisputed fact that a TT can lap faster than a 360. Stradles are dead even with the GT3.

 

dat pic looks like my homie shante just got bucked down on a drive by KID

 

woof
yip
woof
yip
woof
yip

it's still just opinion back & forth, but I stand by my comment that the "what happens to P-cars when a 360CH bites them" seems to imply a deserved wreck when trying to go as fast as a 360CH.

The guy may have screwed up, but he was driving his Porsche, rather than sitting on his Porch.

 

wow cavallino - very sad attitude displayed by your post. Glad I found out now though - I had actually head some good things about your dealership in the past so I checked your website semi-regularly for cars. I'll mark it off the list now though since that kind of arrogant insensitive attitude is typically not an isolated event...

(edited for clarification)

 

WE DON NEED YOUR A$$ HERE ANYWAY SUCKA YOU HAVE NOTING TO COTRIBUTISIS EXCEPT YOUR FACE ON MY TIBERLANDS sON

NON SUBSCRIBIN SUCKA TASH