US GP Discussion

As a matter of fact I do, and it was written by Micheal containing 4 main points.

1. I'm always in front and you can never challenge me (of course you can pretend a few times to fool the public).
2. See #1
3. See #1
4. See #1

 

None of us can blame Aventino for having that synical view, because that is the way it looks. Most people I talk to believe this is the situation and thus do NOT respect MS as a racing driver.

Thus Ferrari/MS's tactics are undermining the ability of the greatest driver in modern times (arguably). What a shame, thus they are not only hurting RB's career but also hurting MS.

Come on Ferrari wake up and publically show and prove that you have changed. Team orders are one thing but this is way over the top.

Pete

 

It was only by chance that Ralf hit the barrier backwards at 190mph instead of nose first... He even went into the barrier backwards at the worst possible angle; 90 degrees.

If he had gone nose first at almost 90 degrees, what do you think the outcome would have been?

Anyway, when I was watching the race last night, I was staring in disbelief at what was being shown: a Williams car having gone off a fast sweeping turn, crashed into a solid barrier at high speed and rebounded several hundred meters, after which the driver lay motionless in the cockpit. It's just the way the car sat there after the crash, silent, wheels horribly bent, bodywork smashed - I was thinking "Oh no, I hope this is not another Imola '94...Ayrton Senna...Roland Ratzenberger... this could very well have be fatal.... is Ralf ok? is Ralf ok?"

Then I realised how long it was taking for the marshals to assist and the medical team to get there; meanwhile all the other cars are being driven right past the accident in an idiotic precession, with poor Michael driving past lap after lap seeing his brother's wreck. It was a charade seeing the cars doing debris dodging right past the ambulance, and then adding further insult to injury when the ambulance was attempting to drive around the track next to the F1 cars...

It's at times like this where you want to see the professionalism and efficiency of the whole F1 organisation put to good use in possibly saving a driver's life while ensuring the maximum safety for the rescue team; Unfortunately that's not what I saw yesterday. Infuriating!

As others have said (and James and Martin did during the race) the safety car could have at least led the pack through pit lane.

 

I completely relate to what you're saying. When I saw Ralf's head slumped to the side after the accident I had a flashback to Senna in 94. It was a horrible feeling made worse by the large amount of time Ralf sat alone without assistance.

And then the in-cockpit shot (in slow motion to boot) of Michael turning his head as he drove by the accident, watching his brother getting pulled out of the wreck. It was one of the most heart churning things I've ever seen.

 

Its not so easy. Consider the following:

1) If you were about to pit and the safety car comes out, now what? You run out of gas on course? Is that fair?
2) If you were about to pit and the course goes under yellow, can you still pit? If so, then you better haul ass to the pit lane just in case the safety car gets called out!!
3) Further, if you need to pit in the next 3 laps or so, you better haul ass to the pit lane to make sure you don't get stuck out behind the safety car for 10 laps and risk running out of gas.

So, you add the simple rule above to prevent racing to the pit lane under yellow, and what you create is situations where half the field is now racing to pit lane!

Some of these rules are not so easy to write...

 

If the primary goal is safety, here's a rule that might work... at the point of a full course yellow, FIA "snapshots" the current track positions... whether you pit or not during yellow, those track positions are restored prior to going green.

With that, there's no need to hurry into the pit... there's no need to hurry to start/finish... and, in fact, most everybody will pit... and they will be long, leisurely pit stops... essentially, under yellow, nothing matters other than being safe and keeping the cars warm and moving.

Thoughts?

 

Restoring the track positions should be easy but I can see a few problems such as how long have you got to get back to where you should be.

 

How would this be communicated to the drivers... through the team radio? What happens to back markers.

 

How about, on a full-course yellow EVERYBODY goes straight to the pits (without passing "go"), and they stay there until the track is safe to race on again. (Radiator chillers / tire warmers allowed)
Arrivals at the pit entry are logged, and they leave in the same order (and with the same separation?) as when they arrived? (And if you can't get the engine re-started on cue you go out last.)

But that just makes it a race to the pits. That would'a been okay for Sunday, but what if the accident was just before the pit entrance?

 

Even if the cars all survive the race into the pits, probably 1/3 of the cars won't survive sitting there in the pits side-by-side for an extended time after having just run hard into the pits. I suppose if they want to throw a lot of money at it, they could develop such a rule for a couple years from now to give teams time to develop cars and accessory equipment to allow them to survive extended hot pit times.

 

Hi...............

One major question: why did it take so long for anyone to reach Ralf Schumacher ??

Even the commentators voiced their consternation !! An emergency medical crew and ambulance should not be required to "tour the entire circuit" to reach a crash scene.

It took far too long to reach Senna as well, even though it would have made no difference. When Berger hit the wall and his car burst into flames years ago, the fire crews were there in seconds.....seconds !!!

Should be an investigation of the emergency response procedures !!! Lives hang in the balance; F1 is not a stage play !!

Frank...........

 

one of the problems they talked about when they were at the track is that the fia brings their own emergency group. so when ralph got stuck at the begining of the straight they didnt really know what to do, they were not as prepaired. i would have like to seen the indy crew working the race, they are always increadibly fast with getting to the person. either way it was a bad situation and it should be looked at. they should have a game plan before the race just like the racers, so that in situations like this they can be taken care of promptly.

 

Note that if Ralf's car had caught fire, you may have seen similar instant response... it was hard to see what was going on behind the wall.

Consider this: anybody at the track can operate a fire extinguisher to save Ralf's life. How many people can do anything for a broken back or neck? So, the question is: is it worth risking a corner worker's life if all they can do is stand there and chat to him assuming he's even concious??? Probably not.

So, while we expect corner workers with flags and fire extinguishers placed all around the track, we don't really expect trained paramedics or doctors to be similarly placed. Such people will be in the rescue vehicles that must drive to the accident... minutes, not seconds, realistically.

HOWEVER, with all that said, I am just trying to set a realistic goal... I absolutely agree that it took absolutely way too long to get somebody out to Ralf... waayyy to long! They should have been sitting in the vehicle with engine running... put it into gear, pull out, check for race traffic, haul ass to vehicle... 45-60 seconds based on where Ralf was... 90 seconds maybe, if there was excess race traffic (which there wasn't).

Perhaps were they not willing to go the wrong way down the track and thus decided to do a 40mph romp around the whole length of it? In that case, Ralf was just about as far away as possible... and that would explain the many-minute wait for them to arrive. And in that case, I think they need to add paramedics in a BMW M3 or something to get them there quick to start work until the ambulance arrives. And maybe some more shortcut access roads.

JMHO,

 

In order for a driver to block, the car behind must be close enough to pass and be in line to do so. MS drifted left and that was one move. Then he went right and there was no need for it beacause an "attempt" was not comming, so no harm no foul.

 

Hi............

Might not be an unreasonable expectation to have paramedics stationed at several locations around a track !!

Consider this scenario for Ralf Schumacher's shunt: hits concrete wall ten feet beyond the SAFER barrier at nearly 200 miles per hour; the concussion knocks him out as he bites his tongue; while unconscious, blood blocks his airway.

As I recall, in Europe the FIA provides a high-performance Mercedes-Benz emergency response vehicle for the medical team at a race.

Alonso's shunt suggests that the SAFER barriers should be installed on all of the concrete walls and track barriers, since it is clear that a race car can hit anything at any time, in spite of an engineer's assumptions about most probable impact points.

Food for thought !!

Frank..............

 

Those walls are very expensive. Perhaps too expensive.

 

Any track that requires safety equipment that is deemed too expensive should not be raced on. The Indy track is a joke. It is exceedingly dangerous, not challenging, and is boring. It is a shame that the people just being introduced to F1 will have this race to look at as their taste of what the sport is all about.

There is no way to justify a one minute wait for a response to an accident on the track. Those of us who saw Gerhard Berger's crash during the San Marino GP many years ago can understand the importance of a quick response. If no one had responded within the first fifteen seconds they should have red flagged the race so the emergency vehicles could have gone in the counter-race direction to speed up the arrival and treatment. RS and all of us were very lucky yesterday.

Andy

 

Last week the NASCAR drivers were *****ing about this very rule.( I believe they are doing this). Seems the drivers want to go back to racing to the yellow. There is just no satisfying everybody.( No, I am not saying the current situation is the best).

 

All comments aside. Saftey is job one. Don't ever forget that.

 

Couldn't agree more.

 

I don't feel that Indy is to blame when it comes to the slow response. The medical safety crew for the USGP is run by FIA. The IRL and NASCAR don't have any response problems at that track.

 

Most of the racing at the Brickyard goes the other way around the track. The SAFER barrier is positioned to catch IRL cars -- it doesn't look like they extended it for when IRL turn 1 becomes F1 turn 13.

 

The one thing that bothered me - other than everything that has already been said - is the fact that once all the cars had gone by and there was still no medical crew or personnel on the scene - Christiano DaMatta in his stricken Toyota cruised by the scene. It was blatantly clear that Ralf was injured and it was blatantly clear that DaMatta was WAY in the back of the pack with his gear box problems - why did he not stop to see if there was something he could do??

I have watched several racing events where drivers have immediately stopped racing their vehicles or race boats to come to the aid of a stricken driver. It bothered me that the medical team took so long, it bothered me that none of the course marshals came over the wall, and it bothered me that a fellow driver casually drove by!

Perhaps none of them could have done anything to help Ralf - but you would have thought they would have at least made an effort. What if something far-fetched like Ralf's seat belt were somehow twisted in a manner that it was choking him? It wouldn't require a doctor to help in a situation like that!

Just a tradegy to watch the broken car sit there with an injured driver as the seconds - which seemed like an eternity - ticked by with no one coming to Ralf's side. If I had 10 seconds to live and needed to choke a few words out I would want someone there to hear them!

 

Jeffrey: I think most of the drivers would have jumped out - but they would have been SEVERELY reprimanded and fined, etc. This is the job of the Marshals, who should be onsite within SECONDS, not 6 minutes.

Hopefully this is reason enough to move the US GP from Indy.

--Dan

 

I agree with everbody's sentiment that Ralf should have got help sooner, but maybe it was just not possible. It must have been simply unbearable for all of the pit crew people sitting mere meters away from the wreckage, unable to do anything. Still, letting the safety personell do their job was probably the right call (the old discretion v. valor thing...)

In an accident, I think an important thing is to prevent the accident from causing an another incident. With Ralf's wreckage stopped at a very fast portion of the track, after a turn, I think the thought of having a racecar hit an ambulance or track personell at 190+mph might have made the pit crew extra careful? With the field spread out over the whole track, it must have taken more than 1-2 laps for all of the racers get settled befind the SC.

Still, I don't recall if the safety car, with all of the racecars in tow at reduced speeds "beat" the ambulance to the wreckage. In that case, shame on the FIA.

Also, is there only one safety car? Dosen't other sanctioning bodies (CART?) have more than one SC stationed at diff. parts of the track, or am I imagining things?

-art

ps: ZOLT!!! Minardi!!! Woohoo!