F430's available now...I'm ticked!!!

Beg to differ. They required a copy of the check and my ID faxed to them before they would allocate my Superamerica. Perhaps for the common cars they do not, but I believe they have tightened up their requirements, since so many people are flipping cars. Even their dealers are doing it..there are 2-3 430s on the marketplace section of FNA's website. Irksome.
And it IS a breach of most FNA dealer agreements to sell for more than MSRP ON NEW CARS. If it is an RDR and ticket sent, then the sky is the limit. Problem is that shill buyers are flipping the early cars for profit. Supply, demand, and mystique.
Soup-Nazi marketing 101
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I respectfully have a different opinion - Ferrari, as a whole, does make money by keeping the price where it is -

As I noted above, making sure the car (or brand) retains it value (or does not suffer huge depreciation) is ensured by having the price where it is and the secondary market above that. The F430 the 612, the 360, benefit from this.

Moreover - and you actually point this out -- dealers tend to "make" folks who want to get on e.g., the f430 list, buy 360s or Maseratis from them at prices higher than they would have otherwise been if the MSRP was raised and the demand eased -- Thus further ensuring that the value of the F cars now and in the future remains high.

To be sure, this is a long-term view that has served Ferrari well over the last 30 years and will continue for the next *** years.

 

Ferrari lost a ton on Maser and bailed. Not much long term view there.

 

Not sure I follow the "bailed" comment -- but it is clear that the Masers are benefitted in many ways ($$ and otherwise) by the Ferraris

 

Maser is no longer part of Ferrari.

 

just because someone purchases as maserati at sticker vs the $50k its worth doesn't raise the market on the maser, just means that guy just took a huge depreciation hit. Because dealers are able to sell cars higher then market value in exchange for future car placement purchases doesn't race the market on the car as a whole.

 

I still can't believe that only a few people get it.

If the market values the F430 above the 575 and 612, price it above them. I'd love to see a classic V12 as the entry level car.

A company is in business to maximize revenue/profit. Period. End of discussion.

 

Compare like for like. I.E the price you buy the car for with the price you sell it for.

This miraculous 0 depreciation on F's often relies on comparing the MSRP with the resale price.

Generally if you get the car early at MSRP you've dropped a lot to the dealer already. Yes some people are lucky, but judging by the *****ing on this site it definately isn't the norm.

Now the guys that are paying 70k over now, do you think they will come out ontop 1 year down the line????

As for the grey market comment. Why would the fact the MSRP is lower affect the grey market. You only care about the market price if your going to import grey.

Simple fact is, if buying Ferraris is such a sure fire bet, why are people putting their money in the bank?

 

I don't put my money in the bank - No real upside for capital appreciation --

And the overwhelming number of Americans don't either if you look at the "savings" rate over the last 20 years.

Gotta take risk if you want to be able to afford a Ferrari.

 

Ok why invest in bonds, shares or anything else. Just buy 20 F430's!

 

At MSRP!!!!!!

 

You see this is the point i'm making. When talking with proponents of the 0% depreciation on Ferraris theory. You know the bunch I mean "Drive it for 3 years and get your money back", "order a 430 and make XXXXX in 6 months". Their position always changes.

When we talk about residuals the comparison is always made with the MSRP. I.E. Car X went for MSRP + Y after guy used it for 1 year.

Thus giving the impression WOW. F**k the stock market, why not buy 20-30 Ferrari's. Have one for everyday of the month. Sell them in a year and make a killing.

But then when I propose such a thing, someone posts but you can't get it for MSRP.

Point is the MSRP is irrelevant when it comes to calculating depreciation if the vast majority of people can't get the car for MSRP (or have had to buy a 612 to get a 430 at MSRP).

 

Don't get me wrong. I Love Ferraris.

And they do depreciate (the V8's at least) better then the competition. But not aswell as some would suggest.

Common sense should tell most of you that.

 

I have a question... and this is my ignorance speaking here, but about this whole "buy it new and drive it for 2 years and break even" philosophy - what about sales tax? Even if you buy a car for 200K and sell it 2 years later for 200K, you're still out the ~20K in sales tax, etc, right? What am I missing here? Sorry in advance if this is a stupid question

 

My guess would be that most trade an older F, like a 360, in on the new car. Doing that, you pay sales tax (where I live, at least) on the difference, only.

 

Thanks so much for the explanation - makes perfect sense (don't know why I didn't think of that!).

 

It's not that easy, you'd need a dealer's license to resell the F430's at least here you would. Not to mention you can't get 20 F430's for MSRP. At least now.

 

Leasing the car addresses (for the most part) that problem. You only pay sales tax on the payment your making.

 

Exactly. Your trade in worth $190k, new car $200k only pay tax on $10k. I've done this with my last 7 trades. Not so in CA though. They have to pay full tax even with trade. If I trade in my CS this Spring for a 430 I'll save approx. $17,000 in taxes.

 

Leasing a car like a new Ferrari bought at msrp is like throwing money away. (On a car that depreciates it makes more sense). Financing it where you get your money back because the car keeps all it's value (and then some) is the way to go in most cases.

When's the Spider coming Nick ?

 

I should clarify that for Ferrari's that are keeping their value ie) the 430/spider.

 

You need a dealers license to sell a car? You guys are a funny bunch. You need a license to sell a car. Yet you can walk into WALLMart (is that the right one?) and buy some 9mm's.

Anyway, it was a facetious suggestion. If you read my subsequent post to the one you quoted you'll see the point I was trying to make was you cant get one at MSRP.

 

Buy a Gallardo. Why pay another $100K for a 430. Arguably, it isn't any nicer than a Gallardo, and soon there will be a Gallardo Spyder available, also a new RWD only Gallardo. I like Ferrari, but I don't feel a 'poor relation' when driving a Lamborghini....

 

Jim, not sure I agree with your conclusions that Ferrari leaving money on the table is a bad/inexplicable idea.

These are my thoughts, though almost all are based on speculation:

1. Ferrari could sell the F430 for much more and they would still sell all of them.
2. Instead, Ferrari sells the F430 for less than they could, leaving, possibly, several hundreds of millions on the table.
3. Ferrari also makes a lot of money on merchandizing.
4. A lot of Ferrari merchandizing sales go to Ferrari owners
5. A lot, and possibly more, of Ferrari merchandizing sales go to non-Ferrari owners.
6. Ferrari has a certain mystique.
7. This mystique originates, at least in part, from some sense of exclusivity, some sense that the cars have great value, that Ferrari makes an extremely desirable product.
8. This sense of desirability is bolstered a great deal by the fact that Ferrari, unlike any other car seller in the world, can continue to make cars that sell significantly over MSRP.
9. The Ferrari merchandizing sales that go to Ferrari owners do so in many cases, at least in part, because of Ferrari mystique described above. Whether they are the ones paying $75K over retail for F430s, or scraping together every penny they can for the cheapest Ferrari on the market, they feel that they are buying someing special, something desirable.
10. Even more so, Ferrari merchandizing sales that go to non-owners do so, at least in part, because of the Ferrari mystique as described above. Consumers are attracted to a brand that they think is desirable and attached to desirable things.
11. Therefore, by leaving money on the F430 table, Ferrari: a) maintains the strength and desirability-image of the brand; and b) thereby makes more money than it otherwise would in other parts of its business (advertising, which I haven't discussed; merchandizing; and so on.)

 

Ferrari should increase MSRP (and do it worldwide) on new cars, and increase the margins it gives to its dealers, thereby removing the need to “flip” new cars with preferred customers
To say that this will weaken the brand and its image misses out on one simple point, Ferrari / Fiat want to make as much money prior to Ferraris stock market flotation / sell out as possible,
Why else do you think there is an ever increasing number of cheap tasteless and laughably designed Ferrari endorsed products, for a company that trades on their upmarket image selling cheap branded goods to the masses will only devalue the brand (given the choice I’m sure the average owner who was going to buy some goodies would prefer something with a little more style than the current rubbish)