$50,000 16,000 miles TR am I crazy? | FerrariChat
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$50,000 16,000 miles TR am I crazy?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by jvbjr, Aug 20, 2005.

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  1. jvbjr

    jvbjr Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Aug 19, 2005
    418
    #1 jvbjr, Aug 20, 2005
    I went and looked at a 1988 TR today, it supposedly has 16,000 miles on it. Let's start with the little bit of good news, after it was running for about ten minutes the engine sounded good and it rode/shifted well.

    NOW THE BAD NEWS:

    First the guy acted like the car was a cherry, yeah....

    Issues:

    1. Incomplete service records, the ones he did have you could make with MS Word.

    2. He owns the car 11 months but NEVER registers it, so the title is from a dealership to him, HOW CAN HE SELL IT? There is no where to put yet another buyer.

    3. No instruction manual

    4. No jack or tool kit.

    5. Trunk is full of Kenwood stereo system, BOLTED IN so can NEVER go back to stock condition. Stereo has a face that flips when you turn it on, WHEN you can get it to work. When the stereo IS ON, the passenger rear speaker still does not work never mind the speaker grill there is all saggy. Let's NOT FORGET the remote for the stereo that has been GLUED onto the console.

    6. Driver's seat belt motor is DOA and belt is disconnected. He has a letter stating that Ferrari did a recall on this, he is the THIRD owner since then so whether any dealership would honor a recall is VERY suspect IMO. Also I doubt it would pass insurance inspection required within 72hrs of purchase, so can the car be insured at all?

    7. Passenger window DOES NOT move at all, stuck 1/4" open, motor is DOA. Driver's side window moves VERY slowly, prepare for the toll booth 3 miles in advance.

    8. Windsheild has a car phone antenna drilled through it, car phones are as passe as cocaine, would need to replace eventually.

    9. Driver's side fog lamp broken, cracked some sort of impact.

    10. Driver's side door gasket peeling apart, needs replacement.

    11. Dashboard has "a crack in the leather", YEAH six of them, averaging 3"x2" EACH!!!!!!

    12. Two buttons on roof console that we have NO IDEA what they do or why they are there.

    13. Front spoiler replaced after flatbed guy "forgot" to unhook chain and broke it clean off the car. Replacement piece looks after market IMO, not OEM.

    14. Inside leather is beat, scratches, scuffs, black worn off in many locations. When you are p*ssed off at your cat DON'T punish it by throwing it into the Ferrari!

    15. Battery was 100% dead and we had to jump start it, the way to IMPRESS the potential buyer from the word go.

    16. Windsheild wipers slow/fast is the same speed, WTF?

    17. Trunk lid does not stay up, but if he can locate the stick he uses to hold it up it will be included in the sale, ACES!!!!

    18. Sometimes the parking brake releases, some times not.

    SINCE THE PAINT WAS PERFECT, let's make a list for this issue all ALONE:

    P1. Rear deck lid is NOT red but maroon/burgendy, at LEAST 30 shades darker than the rest of the car. He says they "all get like that from the heat". I've NEVER heard of this. Also, the center island fiberglass piece is the correct color, the rest of the "red" surround is way off, like it was repainted the wrong color. Where the body of the car is right next to the hood the paint is the correct color, I guess that part does NOT get as hot??? Please, whisper in my ear when your trying to f*ck me ok?

    P2. Drivers side near the cheese grater touch ups, nice nail polish, PERHAPS a few shades closer would have been a better idea though. ALTHOUGH it is closer than the damn HOOD!!! Don't over do it, one coat of nailpoish over a scrape to the abre metal is enough, you can BARELY see the height difference from a 100 yards!

    P3. The hood is all scuffed up, would need a serious compounding and HOPE you can avoid going through the paint.

    P4. No stone chips on the nose, I guess because that's been REPAINTED, a good but certainly not a perfect match in color.

    P5. Deep calcuim stains in the maroon engine deck, again a LOT of work to buff out.

    P6. Door sills black worn off in places and red showing through.

    SO I ASK YOU is this what $50,000 buys you today?

    I do not understand HOW you can beat the interior so badly in 16,000 miles. I give the interior a 4.5 out of 10, while my Explorer has 14,000 miles and its interior is about 9.3 still.

    I do not buy that engine deck story, it HAS TO be repainted, otherwise the color could not be so uniform. Heat issues flow outward from their source, this lid was the same color everywhere, it was just the wrong color.

    Say I did ALL the work myself, like the window motors, the paint work other than the engine lid and if Ferrari did do a recall repair for free, I think I still have $6,000 worth of parts to buy. Also, if this is what I see, what did I miss?

    We discussed $47,000 but upon driving home I starting to think that is at least $7,000 too rich given what I know about the car, nevermind what I am still to learn.
     
  2. brent Lachelt

    brent Lachelt Formula 3

    Dec 6, 2003
    1,831
    Brownsburg, INDIANA
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    Brent R.Lachelt
    #2 brent Lachelt, Aug 20, 2005
    Keep looking!
     
  3. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2004
    5,953
    Burbank, CA
    Full Name:
    Hank Garfield
    #3 hank sound, Aug 20, 2005
    Hey jvbjr,

    Your profile doesn't tell us where you are. It may or may not be convenient for you to come look at an 86 Testarossa which is virtually perfect. Everything works except the owner (retired):) If Fchatters know where you are, we can help you in a neighborly fashion.

    Cheers, Hank
     
  4. spang308

    spang308 Formula Junior

    Jul 17, 2004
    893
    York, PA
    #4 spang308, Aug 20, 2005
    The whole time I was reading your post, I was thinking this is a $40,000 car.
    Then I get to the last line and you seem to agree. If you want a fixer upper, $40K seems OK providing you can do the work yourself. If not, run for the hills. It would cost a small fortune to make this car right paying labor.

    From your description, I don't believe the miles at all. I would be alarmed if it were less than 45,000 or so.

    I would keep looking even at $40,000, unless it were so rediculously cheap I couldn't pass it up. Paintwork, a major service, and interior work to be done, and that's before the other gremlims rear their ugly heads.

    John
     
  5. David_S

    David_S F1 World Champ
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    Mountains of WNC...
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    David S.
    #5 David_S, Aug 20, 2005
    Sounds more like a $30 to $35K car to me. $45K would buy you a driver that needed a belt service, but where at least the window & everything else works.
     
  6. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
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    Mr. Sideways
    #6 No Doubt, Aug 20, 2005
    I don't know where you live because you didn't fill out your profile, but here in Alabama **you** the new buyer will be held liable for sales taxes that the previous owner didn't pay (the prime reason for wannabe's to not license and tag their car).

    That sort of nonsense was pretty common back before autocheck.com and carfax.com (which show you when the car was last registered/tagged/renewed), and many a newbie buyer got burned thinking that they only needed to pay **their** sales tax and their tag fees when they registered...only to find out that they get to pay the previous owner's uncollected sales tax, too.
     
  7. ferrari4evr1

    ferrari4evr1 Formula 3

    May 8, 2005
    1,249
    #7 ferrari4evr1, Aug 20, 2005

    Agreed......
    I went looking for a TR some months ago and the guy that had a rare grey over tan one here in town let me take it for a test drive. After coming back i asked him if i could take it (or if he could) to the local Ferrari dealership for an inspection... The guy got really nervous and made excuses of why this could not be done... Bah Bye....
    Continue looking for your own benefit.. It will pay off in the end..
     
  8. carguy

    carguy F1 Rookie

    Oct 30, 2002
    3,424
    Alabama (was Mich.)
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    Jeff
    #8 carguy, Aug 21, 2005
    Yikes! That owner scares me too! Just one dishonest claim about the car makes everything else suspect too....even it it's not. I agree with everyone telling you to keep looking. I have gone down that bumpy road to fixing up a TR and it's not fun.....but if you get the right car it can be rewarding eventually. My TR was similar to this one when I bought it. It needed lots of work, but luckily the body was great....it was a repaint but done quite well. Mechanical stuff is fine....but when it comes to paintwork.....it's a whole 'nuther world. I would say that TR is a $35k car, and I would buy it ONLY if I wanted to get a real mechanical education about TRs. On my TR I've done the following: rewired interior and console, new weather strips, cam belts & water pump, restored wheels, fixed & painted rear bumper and valence panel, purchased all books and tools, and tons of other things. The list is very long. But I did all the work myself over about 3 years and now the car has been totally reliable and great to drive. The cost for everything I'm guessing is around $5k or so since I did all the work. And I've learned almost everything about TRs in the process. I'm my own "expert" now and it would be hard to fool me. So when I get my next TR I can pretty much do my own PPI. And this knowledge is priceless to me....it's been the school of hard knocks but well worth it in the long run.

    So a fixer-upper TR can be a good thing if the car is cosmetically sound. Good Luck on your search. There are lots of really nice TRs out there for $50k to $60k.
     
  9. robje1355

    robje1355 Karting

    Jun 2, 2004
    61
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Robert Ercevic
    #9 robje1355, Aug 22, 2005
    The problem I see here is that everyone wants to have the 100% restored Class A condition car (being close to 20 years old) however a car that has been driven will show aging... no way of stopping it.

    Checking the hstory is good but please keep in mind that it takes a good 20 miles to warm up the engine (not to mention the 15 litres of oil in the engine). so a car with 20K miles after say 15 years has driven most of the time with a COLD engine!!!!! Scarry thought?

    So IF the interior is not 100%... this can be fixed... if the engine uses oil (and you will not find out untill you bought this hanger queen) you are in a whole lot more trouble and this can not be fixed as fast

    So check the car, even if it doesn't look new still keep in mind the age of it.

    As far as my own car .... well I drive it. It gets dirty... so what!
    just my 2 cents
     
  10. colo348

    colo348 Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    143
    Colorado
    Full Name:
    Jim
    #10 colo348, Aug 22, 2005
    Your walking into a real mess. W/O complete and valid service records you could get stuck with a really expensive overhaul. With the TR's (I have a '91) it's real easy to disconnect to speedometer, thus keep the miles low. As one chatter said "Keep Looking".
    Good luck,
    Jim
     
  11. Ken

    Ken F1 World Champ

    Oct 19, 2001
    16,078
    Arlington Heights IL
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    Kenneth
    #11 Ken, Aug 22, 2005
    Simple: walk away. No title! You'll pay your money and may never own the car. I bet there's hidden issues there.

    Or is it titled and not registered? Still seems too odd to want to deal with.

    Ken
     
  12. Shamile

    Shamile F1 Veteran

    Dec 31, 2002
    6,712
    Lakeland FL
    Full Name:
    Shamile
    #12 Shamile, Aug 27, 2005
    Dear Ferraristi,

    Ow, I agree with the rest of the F chatters. This car has too many red flags. If the overall apperance is "slap-dash"....guess what the mechanical history will be like.
    I own a 91 and a major service without other issues is $8000.00 not including the clutch ( Central Florida Ferrari ) The engine service is 40 hour job.
    I think you will be paying alot more to bring the car " up" than to pay more on the front end for a really nice car. Be content with a $ 10-15,000 increase for a better/ newer car. That cash can easily be used up in a lesser car.

    ...and no, the rear hatch will not change color even with the heat. My car is a daily driver in central Florida with 34000 miles on the clock and counting.


    Shamile

    Freeze....Miami Vice !
     
  13. thecarreaper

    thecarreaper F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Sep 30, 2003
    18,058
    Savannah
    #13 thecarreaper, Aug 27, 2005
    the third party title is illegal in most states and will get you in a heap of trouble. for that one reason alone i would run away from the car. with all the rest thats wrong with it, i would buy a nicer car and drive it more, instead on pissing money away fixing someones sins. i will say i wouldnt expect the car to be perfect, if it runs and can be driven in traffic and on the highway, the little things dont matter. its 20+ years old. you would not believe the stupid questions i have gotten about my 2 308's. in a nutshell, i would pass on this one, but the cheaper cars can be great drivers if you come to terms what a 20 year old car should behave like. no leaks, reliable, runs strong. the rest in minr :) !

    pass on this TR.
     
  14. Capone

    Capone Karting

    Mar 29, 2005
    246
    Midwest
    #14 Capone, Aug 28, 2005
    "all get like that from the heat".

    BS. Something is really wrong with that car. Ferrari took into consideration how hot that engine bay gets when they built the car. I've never seen one that is discolored.
     
  15. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

    Feb 16, 2003
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    Han Solo
    #15 Spasso, Aug 28, 2005
    A clear title is a must. Leakdown is second, belt service is third. The cosmetics are a no-brainer but it's no flower. That can be fixed. I would pay close attention to transaxle and wheel bearing noises. The steering rack is another indication of true mileage. Offer 35k or walk.
     
  16. Artherd

    Artherd F1 Veteran

    Jun 19, 2002
    6,588
    Bay Area, CA
    Full Name:
    Ben Cannon
    #16 Artherd, Aug 29, 2005
    SURE THEY DO, WHEN THEY HAVE AN ENGINE FIRE!!!

    Only thing I can think of. RUN do not walk away from this. I'd hardly take it if it were *given* to me. It will cost you $30k to get it back to shape.
     

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