not sure if this has been discussed earlier, but anybody knows if a V8 will scream as loud as a V10?
Definately going to be louder....I saw a video of one behind "sound proof" glass and although you couldnt get the full effect, you could tell it just screams. Mark
louder? holy crap....i seriously thought it would be like a cat's purr compared to a V10's tiger's roar...
There are people on here that understand this a lot better than me, but the sound should be essentially the same given the increased revs. A V10 at 18,000 rpms should sound the same to the human ear as a V8 at 22,500rpms, given the same cylinder/piston/head/crank dimensions (which are all being pretty much retained in F1's case). I'm by no means an acoustic engineer, but the shrieking of a 3L V12 compared to the lower tone of the 3L V8s (think early 90s) was due to the differences in revs and combustion chamber sizes from what I understand.
I hope the technology eventually transfers to street cars. Would not mind that V8 in my 355 spider !!!!!!!!!! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Unless there are some dynamics of the intake and exhaust system that I am unaware of, it would seem that the V8 would be less noisy or the same noise level at best. Assuming the bore/stroke ratio of the V8 is the same as a V10 (still 300cc cylinders remember), the V8's won't rev all that much higher than the V10's today. Even if the bore/stroke ratio is increased due to normal evolution and development 22.5k seems too high, if they only rev to 19k today. While shorter (and stiffer) camshafts and crank may allow for higher revs, a 15% increase in redline seems doubtful. 20% fewer cylinders at the about the same RPM means 20% less power strokes and the accompanying impulses of acoustic energy produced. Differences between the intake and exhaust for the V8 might make up some of this difference in dB. but more likely is the frequency spectrum will be changed. It will probably sound slightly different, but I doubt if it is louder.
All I can say is that the varsha and crew seem to think it will be louder. I was at races in the 80's that had V-6 turbo's (ferrari), inline 4 turbo's (bmw) and NA V-8's (good ol frank tyrell) on the track at the same time. Those V-8's really screamed to the point of painful eardrums. The ferrari made the sound of an M80 at every shift. I do not know what the displacement or RPM differences are between theses old V-8's and the new ones but it's tough to imagine anything louder.
I just remember back when Ferrari had the only V-12 on the track, those engines shrieked louder than all the other V-10s. I don't know the physics of the issue, but with increased revs who knows? They're talking about an increase of 2-3000 rpm!!
Come on guys.... It's not so much the amount of cylinders, displacement or even engine size...it's all about the exhaust system, manifold, cats (or lack thereof), etc, etc. The fact that Ferrari uses a flat-crank alone makes a unique and beautiful sound to start with. Then it goes to RPM: more bang's per second, more combustion, more power being released. There's so many factors that counting the amount of cylinders is just one component. A lot of it comes down to the final baffling in the muffler itself.
??? ... F1 engines don't have exhaust mufflers. The v8's WILL rev higher. Some of this is due to less loses compared to v10's the rest is advances in technology. They will sound good don't worry ... Pete
I'm sure they've already had the V8s over 20k rpm in testing. The V8 is a better starting point in regards to harmonics. If they didn't have regs specifying V10s, I'd be surprised if some of the teams didn't move away from them by now (obviously there's no way to know if they would have been successful). A lot has changed since they became the dominant engine type by natural selection.
sound clips: http://www.gazzetta.it/audiovideo/Formula1/audio.shtml?2005/08_Agosto/10/Ferrari http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=cosworthV8_movie5_medium
Considering that the FIA has stipulated a maximum bore of 98mm, for a 300cc cylinder that would mean a 39.7mm stroke. 20,000 rpm for a stroke of 39.7mm calculates to an average piston speed of 1,588,000 mm/min (5210 fpm). Historically 5000 fpm has been considered to be pushing the envelope in most engines. Rapid (less than two races?) wear and unreliability have plagued these engines. Improvements in design and materials can raise this practical limit somewhat, but I doubt to 5861 fpm (speed @ 22.5k). I'm sure they could rev past 20k for short periods of time, but when in race trim they will rev a little lower than that, IMO. Whether the small increment of power available from 19-20k is worth the engine reliability issues remains to be seen. One thing for sure is that a 90 degree V8 will have very different dynamics than a 72 degree V10. This will almost certainly shake up the field, at least initially next year. It will be very interesting. I do wonder if a rev-limited V10, redesigned to optimize power and torque for the new artificial redline, would be just as fast and easier to drive for a whole race.
There's a good article in R&T a few months ago on piston speeds, I'll take a look after work, although I never seem to be able to find the articles again in the myriad of mags I get. But the point of it was that current NASCAR piston speeds are faster than those of an F1 car by a substantial margin, so there is definitely room for them to go in that regard. Obviously the F1 piston is changing direction more often, it is a lot lighter though. IIRC, even the Honda S2000 (has a relatively long stroke for engine size) has a higher piston speed than an F1 car. The primary limiting factor from what I understand is combustion chamber shape. As the bore increases in relation to the stroke, the cylinder (piston @TDC) begins to look like a "pancake;" which doesn't inherently promote a good burn. That's a big part of why so much work has gone into pent-roof designs, etc. in recent years. I've wondered about the V10s as well, seems like you could have quite a low-mid range advantage over the V8s, even with restrictors. That would give a big advantage in tight tracks, but the chassis compromises of running a V10 over the V8 might negate that. I'm sure McLaren, Ferrari, etc. know more than I do though, so I'll trust them in their decision in developing the V8s.
As a rule a turbo car will be quieter than a car with straight pipes. The M80 sound was probably the waste gate on the turbo car popping open.
I'd agree on the combustion chamber size because though the displacement is the same, the volume per cylinder is a large difference. I also note that in any case, anything above 18,000 rpms causes spontaneous orgasms.
I can't remember which one it was, but IIRC one of the engines was revving to 23,000 rpm's during bench testing back in July, and they said they were "being conservative". Wasn't that the BMW or Honda that was doing that? I have to believe they're gonna be louder than the V10's just based on the revs. From what I've heard, it seems like the V8's make a higher pitched "shriek" than the V10.
