I have a chance to buy a black/w tan 355 Berlinetta 1995 for my wife since I don't let her drive the F430 without a lot of grief. The car is in near mint condition with 28,000 miles. Any suggestions on what to look out for as I consider the car? It has had all of the dealer service to date. The car runs great, but I don't know much about the 355 apart from the 'cats' and valve guide issue. The owner claims this car was built after they solved the valve guide problem.
After 28,000 miles and 12 years, would not the valve guides, if they were bad, reveal themselves? Car's exhaust is clean. Also the seller is a member of the club, so we see him regularly.
Well thats a flat out lie.......only very late '98s and '99s can make that claim. As far as WHEN that problem can reveal itself, IF it was a material selection issue (some disagreement there) then they could fail anytime. The only safe claim is to buy a '99 or have verifiable proof that they've been swapped out. Same with the headers (replacement, a '99 doesn't solve that). Now if you can afford to roll the dice with a $20k rebuild, thats another story.....
That's right--Dealer just BOLD faced lied about that one....And even the 98's and 99's are not exempt from the bronze guide issue...
Scary to think that 99s aren't immune to the valve guide issue. I have spoken to someone who had the bronze ones recently replaced in his 99. Steve
Have a PPI done with compression/leakdown tests. Post the numbers. This valve issue does not happen to every 355 regardless of year. Sure the later 355's may have sintered steel guides from the factory but not all bronze guides will fail. It is anywhere from 2k-6k added to a 30k service invoice to replace bad valve guides.
Yes, I believe Ferrari stilled used (uses?) bronze on the V-12's. Now that is a surprise since the 360 is supposed to be a steel guide car. Or so I thought...
While there's a lot of disagreement over whether bronze is better than steel, I think it is fair to say that good bronze and good steel are .... well... good The real question is whether Ferrari are using good steel or good bronze. I suspect that it varies on a regular basis and that quality control is a concept yet to be mastered. Time will tell on 360s.
How does a leak down test reveal bad valve guides? When the valves are closed and you pressure up - the guides are sealed off .... no?
Well yes and no.... when the guides are bad they allow the valves to wander and NOT seat in the same place everytime. This creates abnormal non-concentric wear on the seat and valve.... then they well..... leak...
So that is why Davidt bought two 348s. He is getting the good ones before anyone else figures out they are the Ferrari to have! Smart Man!!! -Matt
Hi Guys - I spent a lot of time researching the past couple years of valve guide posts on this site. The most authoritative post I found was last year (IIRC), and I saved the post. Basically, the poster says Ferrari traced the problem to incorrectly seated valve guides on a certain (too high) percentage of 355s. They also changed the material of the valve guide in mid-'95 to a harder alloy (still bronze-type) to help insure the problem was not a material issue. Since they were having so much trouble selling 355's after the problem surfaced, they decided to replace all of them at the time, even though most cars did not have an oil consumption problem. I've felt for some time that it's likely that Ferrari finally went to sintered steel to just eliminate all the customer questions being raised about the material of the valve guides. I didn't ask permission, and didn't include his name, but I trust the original poster won't mind if I post the key parts of his research (hope this is not a violation of protocol or community rules). It sounds reasonable to me.. even though valve guides can still wear, and I would always still get a PPi with compression and leakdown tests done before buying a car. Take care... Rick Original Post.... ".......For the past three years I have seen many posts from people on the issue of valve guides on 1995 355’s. As most of you know I just recently sold my 1995 Challenge, which at one time was a streetcar. The valve guide issue became a serious issue in selling my car. Some people flat out refused to even consider my car, despite the fact that it had no valve guide problem at all, while others discounted their offers by anything ranging from $2000-$7000 because of this issue. I had one interested buyer tell me that he was given advice on Ferrarichat not to ever consider a 1995 model year 355 even if records showed the valve guides had been replaced because some dealers have lied about the work being done. In the end I was able to show several interested parties that my car in fact had no such problem at all. The car had nearly perfect leakdown results (6-8% on cylinders 1-7 and 10% on cylinder 8). I also provided service records from day one (12/94) that showed no excessive oil consumption. A car exhibiting valve guide wear would burn oil and show excessively bad leakdown numbers. I am absolutely amazed at the overblown hype on this issue and the amount of misinformation some of you spread on the Internet, some who don’t even own a Ferrari. I thought in order to clear some things up I would present my findings on the subject as over the past month I have spent close to 20-30 hours researching the issue speaking to people both within FNA, the factory in Italy and other outside sources. I spoke with everyone, ranging from FNA’s technical director, 4 different crew chiefs on 2 different dealer Challenge teams who ran 355 C’s, to the head of engine design for the 355 at Ferrari SPA in Italy (through an interpreter), as well as the 355 production manager there as well (he spoke English). In addition, a very highly respected Ferrarichat member on this board who worked on several Challenge teams for over 9 years and personally oversaw a few 95 Challenge cars, also confirmed what my findings were. Myth #1: All 1995 F355 have valve guide issues and need their original valve guides replaced Fact: Completely false. According to FNA technical director Adam Williams, only about 20% of all 95-model year 355’s experienced excessive valve guide wear and needed them replaced. And in fact, about half way through the 1995 model year the factory changed over to a different type of valve guide (the ones that they replaced the old ones with on the early cars). Myth #2: Some have stated that since the valve guides were not sintered (formed and hardened by heat and pressure) then accelerated wear will also be seen later. Fact: FNA confirmed that this has never ever been an issue. The problem stemmed from improper seating of the guides and if no problem occurred early on then it will not be a problem in the future other than normal wear associated with running the car. PERIOD, END OF STORY! Myth #3: Valve guide issues can occur at any time during the life of the car and are more prone to experience these issue in higher mileage cars. Fact: According to the Ferrari factory in Italy and re-affirmed by Adam Williams, 90% of the valve guide issue occurred almost immediately or within the first two years of ownership. The few that have occurred in higher mileage cars cannot be confirmed to have happened at a specific point in time and likely could have been present for quite some time. Certainly the older valve guides may wear out faster but they don’t go from being in good shape to wearing out overnight. Myth #4. This is only a US problem due to the high sulpha content in our fuel and that Euro cars had different valve guides. Fact: Sorry but totally false. It was a small problem on Euro cars as well and the gas issue is inaccurate. Myth #5: Valve guide issues were only present on 95 models. Fact: Also false. Even with the newer valve guides post 95 production 355’s problems arose. A bad batch of valve guides found it’s way into several 97’s and at least two 98 355’s. Ferrari of Washington alone had two 97’s and one 98 355 that had valve guide issues discovered when each of those cars had higher than normal oil consumption. Myth #6: If the valve guides were changed on a 355 by the dealer then there must have been a problem. In other words why would the dealers change them free of cost if there wasn’t a problem. Fact: The amount of disinformation being spread in the past few years made it impossible for dealers to move 95 model year 355’s, even ones that had later production dates and didn’t even contain the old style valve guides. FNA finally decided to have all early production 95’s changed over even if there were no problems. Myth 7: Only 95 model year cars had any engine problems. Fact: I have already mentioned a bad batch of guides in other production year models but in addition some 96 and early 97’s cars had connecting rod failures (issues with the connecting rod bolts). There are also a few 98 specific engine related problems. It amazes me how much inaccurate information on this issue is repeated by people many of whom, neither own a 355, have any experience with them, or don’t even own a Ferrari or have never worked on them. Because half a dozen people claim something is valid doesn’t make it so. Remember 99.9% of the population at one time believed the earth was flat.
