Air Pump System removal- engine in | FerrariChat

Air Pump System removal- engine in

Discussion in '308/328' started by BlueMax, Jan 7, 2009.

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  1. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
    Norfolk, VA
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    JR
    #1 BlueMax, Jan 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Just got my brass plugs from Daniel (Ricambi). I thought I'd see how far I could get without removing too much...

    Here is an old picture of the starting condition:
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  2. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
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    JR
    #2 BlueMax, Jan 7, 2009
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  3. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
    Norfolk, VA
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    #3 BlueMax, Jan 7, 2009
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  4. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
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    #4 BlueMax, Jan 7, 2009
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  5. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
    Norfolk, VA
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    #5 BlueMax, Jan 7, 2009
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  6. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
    Norfolk, VA
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    JR
    Then prepping the brass plugs with a little anti-seize and install:
     
  7. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
    Norfolk, VA
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    JR
    #8 BlueMax, Jan 7, 2009
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  8. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
    Norfolk, VA
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    JR
    #9 BlueMax, Jan 7, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Of course, then you need to park it outside and let all the PB Blaster burn off! (You can't see it, but my fire ext. is just to the right....)
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  9. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
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    I was a little concerned about being able to get to the front manifold (I guess I still am a little concerned...) But I was able to jack up the car and put jack stands front and rear. There is this access point just forward of the fuel pump that allows you to reach your arm up and get your 17mm stubby wrench up there to loosen the nuts on the front manifold. It took a lot of patience (and rest to get circulation back in your arm) but I got it off after about 1.5 hours messing with it.

    Tomorrow, I'll see if I can slide a socket wrench in there to get the nozzles out. I think with the right length extension I should be able to work those off of there. I'll let you know how it goes!
     
  10. Spitfire

    Spitfire Formula 3

    Nov 16, 2006
    1,602
    I'm interested in seeing how you get on with the front bank. I know it's tight in there, so I wonder whether or not you'll be able to take any photos of your progress. Good luck, and keep us posted.
     
  11. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
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    JR
    #12 BlueMax, Jan 7, 2009
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  12. mwr4440

    mwr4440 Five Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 8, 2007
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    Mark W.R.
    Never heard of this being done this way before.

    Awesome- you ARE, "DA MAN !!!!!!!!"

    When you get the front (5-8 bank) done with or without, ESPECIALLY WITHOUT pulling the exhaust manifold let us know EXACTLY HOW you did it.

    Great work !!!!!
     
  13. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
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    #14 BlueMax, Jan 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    OK. Good news is I was able to unscrew all 4 nozzles from the front bank by reaching up from the bottom via the access hole in the frame adjacent to the fuel pump. The bad news it that I was only able to get three of the four out of the head...
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  14. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
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    I had to use a combination of different sockets to do this depending on the cylinder, angle and torque I needed to loosen each nozzle
     
  15. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
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    #16 BlueMax, Jan 8, 2009
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  16. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
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    #17 BlueMax, Jan 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The first nozzle (cyl 5) took about 15 min. Cyl 6 only took about 10 to get out. Cyl 7 took about 45 minutes to work loose. These last two cylinders were at the extreme length of my reach and to get your fingers wrapped around the nozzle to pull it fully out of the head took A LOT of patience and deep breathing exercises!

    PB Blaster definitely helps out to break some of the carbon free of the nozzle to make the piece slide out a little easier. The only problem is you are working blind to spray this back there. Do be careful if you try this to shield the open side of your belt covers to prevent any PB from getting on your belts. No need to accelerate any aging of your cam belts!
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  17. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
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    #18 BlueMax, Jan 8, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The nozzle in Cyl 8 is proving to be a bit pesky.... I can reach over from the top next to the AC compressor and dipstick but can't get a firm grasp on the nozzle to pull it all the way out. I was, however, able to coat my fingers with PB Blaster and rub it on the nozzle. I will give this some time and come back to it later to see if I can get that last one out.

    To get the brass plugs on the front bank should not be that bad. At least for cyls 5-7. I may wind up taking the coolant return/feed line off from the left side of the engine (The one by the distributors. Not sure if that one is the return or feed...). This should give me about another 3 inches of reach necessary to access the last cylinder. I probably should have taken that off from the start to make life easier, but wanted to see if it was possible without removing it.

    If I can finish this without messing with the front header, I will definitely consider it a win!
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  18. dinogt4guy

    dinogt4guy F1 Rookie

    Oct 31, 2004
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    Awsum thread! I too need to do this! I'm paying very close attention! Great job!

    Cheers!
     
  19. Paul_308

    Paul_308 Formula 3

    Mar 12, 2004
    2,345
    Wouldn't it be easier to remove the engine lid for unfettered topside access?
     
  20. BillyD

    BillyD Formula 3
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    Feb 28, 2004
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    WOW! I had no idea this was possible without removing the exhaust and or engine, much less the engine cover.

    Now where did I put those plugs I bought 3 years ago........
     
  21. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
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    JR
    still having trouble on the #8 nozzle. It is completely unscrewed and at least 1.5 inches of the nozzle is backed out of the port, however the last bit of it is hanging up. Tomorrow I will see if I can somehow get some PB Blaster directed onto/around the port to free it up. I also have some other options to get my hand around it and use a little more muscle... I might actually have to take the air cleaner off!

    I was trying to do this project with as little disassembly as possible just to see if possible. Especially after reading all the threads about engine removal, header removal, fuel tank removal, loosening engine mounts and disconnecting shift linkages! Not that there's anything wrong with that. It's just that I know if I started down that path I would wind up doing a major, port the heads, send the exhaust manifolds out for coating, upgrading to an X-ost & Hyperflows etc, etc! As it is, I've only spent the $100 or so bucks on the plugs and invested in a new 17mm stubby wrench :)
     
  22. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
    Norfolk, VA
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    JR
    OK! Got it!

    You can pull the air manifolds off of a 308 and install the plugs without tearing things down too much.

    I went back in this morning and spent about 1.5 hours to finish getting the last nozzle (cyl #8) out and intalling the front 4 plugs in the head.

    I wound up pulling the air cleaner and going in from the top to get the last plug out. I was able to slide the can of PB Blaster above the exhaust manifold and below the cam cover. Then carefully aimed the nozzle of the can at the air nozzle. Voila! It loosened up enough and I was able to pull it out. Once I got it out though, I realized why it was so difficult. The end of the nozzle had flared out a bit and was binding in the port as it cam out (the bend in the picture was from me muscling it out...)

    I was then able to reach down from the top and install the new brass plug in the #8 position

    I also reached down from the top to install the plug in the #7 position as well. Although when I installed the plugs in the 5 and 6 positions from the bottom, it was obvious that I had plenty of reach to put the #7 in from the bottom as well.
     
  23. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
    Norfolk, VA
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    JR
    #24 BlueMax, Jan 9, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. BlueMax

    BlueMax Formula Junior

    Aug 6, 2006
    291
    Norfolk, VA
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    JR
    #25 BlueMax, Jan 9, 2009
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