Hi guys, OK, I've read the thread titled "Importing a 360 to Melbourne", which answers quite a few questions. I've also read up on the Import tax, the GST, and the LCT pages in the government websites. Let me start by saying I live in London now, and intend on returning to Aus around Xmas next year. I currently have a Subaru 22B, and have a chance to trade up to a 360 Ferrari for not a lot of money. ---- Stepping through the costs, I've seen theres roughly 15k in stamp duty, though this was on a full price car. And theres also discussion of around 30k from a RAWS facility for compliance, though this was for a different model Ferrari. Hopefully I've covered many of the bases? I'll try and fill in some blanks, and if you guys could let me know what you think, that would be very helpful. Initial purchase price: £40,000 = $90,000. Current exchange rate 2.25 to 1 (though this is calculated around the date of export, so will change). Import duty 10% = $9,000 GST = 10% * $99,000 = $9,900 LCT = 25% * 10/11 * $108,900 - 57000ish = $11,800 ish So, car costs $90k Taxes cost 9k + 9.9k + 11.8k = approx 30k RAWS = 30k So far $150k. stamp duty = 6k? Transport, and insurance is around 6k. I may have had to put these into the above calcs, and they get multiplied by double taxation ( a few times ), but thats roughly it. So then you're looking at around $162k, plus time. I understand that a 360 can go for big money through the official dealer network, and further that an "import" is not as valuable. All good stuff so far, and hopefully someone will correct me if I'm wrong (please do, because this is not small money, and I'd rather not make a mistake). Now, heres the thing. I intend to buy the car any day now, and bring it in towards the end of next year, so I'll own it 12 months+. Its important to me to be able to onsell the car, so can I get some comments on: 1 Are the overall costs I've listed reasonable, and if not, where I've screwed up 2 What price would they be likely to get at best, and at worse 3 I've toyed with the idea of onselling it as a part payment on a house. Of course this is hugely variable, but my wife seems to think this is impossible, so I thought I'd put it out there simply to gauge opinion 4 Are there any dealers out there that want to do some kind of deal? Happy to discuss an opportunity 5 With RAWS, does the fact that UK cars are in mph make a difference? Hope you guys arent offended by the newbie questions, but I dont want to blow a lot of money on a mistake, and I want to research as much as I can before spending my money. Many thanks, Rob
I bought a 7 series back to Oz in '90, biggest mistake ever, thought I'd make about $30k selling it back here, lost much moolah and then there is the hassle of doing all the admin side and getting it passed, loaded on ship, insurance (nice gotcha with Lloyds of London insurance is that if you don't insure it for the value of the car AT THE DEST IT IS GOING TO and you make any insurance claim it will be based on the insurance you took out, which I did based on the value of the car in the UK "doh") then the hassles you get when the car gets here with quarantine because the UK is an agricultural minefield with mad cow disease and the fun with wharfies ........ my view, not worth it
$162K landed here? i'd be looking at drive.com.au, carsales, carpoint etc. and checking out the current asking prices (as opposed to selling prices) just to get some idea. it sounds like a world of pain. remember, you're not the first one to think of it, and if it was really feasable then LOTS of people would be doing it.
I absolutely agree waz. I've checked the prices in the Redbook for starters, and a year 2000 360 F1 is worth: Prices based on km 70,000 - 130,000 Trade in price guide* $179,500 - $195,300 National average price - private sale* $197,500 - $214,900 Price when new (RRP) $347,900 Now, these are Aus spec, and as people have mentioned, the imports seem to be worth a bit less. I can clearly see that for this particular car, IF the information I'vecollected above is correct, it would seem theres not much margin for doing this, and a lot of downside potential for things to go wrong. I guess I'm just after confirmation that what I've collated here is correct. I'd be very (very VERY) happy, for someone to tell me otherwise, and that the RAWS costs are wrong, etc. That at least would make it worth doing. So, is the information regarding RAWS wrong?? Anyone?
I recently 'personally imported' my Esprit from London to Adelaide. Very simple process even for a first timer. As it was a Personal Import, RAWS did not enter into the equation. Overall costs were as follows: Oz Import Approval Au$50 Shipping to Oz Au$3100 Customs / Port fees Au$400 Govt. 'Import Duty' + LCT officially calculated at Au$13,000 But customs were real nice and I only had to pay $8000. (Goes on value of car *) South Oz roadworthy and first registration (once off fee) Au$2750. (Goes on value of car *) Worked out at around $14,300 Obviously import duties / lct and first reg will be more for you, but these figures can be worked out using the online DOTARS calculator.
Hi Simon, Many thanks for this, this is very interesting. If theres no RAWS involved, it would seem to indicate that a 360 might be around $132k landed. This would give a reasonable margin, I would think. Thanks again. Anyone else have any experience regarding RAWS? More to the point perhaps, does anyone have an official contact person that I could call regarding whether or not RAWS would apply for a 2000 model 360 F1 from the UK? Rgds, Rob
Don't even begin to contemplate RAWS - if you can't bring it in as a private import (having owned and used it for 12+ months) dont bother. I can put you in contact with a gentlemen who has failed to get through RAWS despite complying with all requirements including having a letter from the federal minister prior to leaving the UK advising that what he proposed "would result" in his car being approved for Australian road registration. And his attempts took more than two years, costs were non-trivial and result = zero. If you do bring in the car via the private import route it is likely to be slow to sell and you will have to discount it significantly over and Australian delivered car. As GDThree mentions a 22B is pretty rare here and as they are all imports resale would be significantly less of an issue.
Aedo, many thanks for a considered post. If I understand you right, RAWS is NOT necessary if its a personal import? As I will own the car for 12 months+, I understand this qualifies it as a personal import. I will use it regularly, thats not a problem. So, is it right to say that a personal import negates the need for RAWS? If so, this would seem to indicate a landed cost of around $132,000... this is starting to look much better. Many thanks, Rob
I forgot to mention, the 22B was bought also with the intention of holding it 12 months +, and then doing the personal import. I know what they are, as its my 4th Subaru, and I've been involved with Subaru for the better part of 10 years. Its just that I can get this deal with a 360, and, well, I've just always wanted one. And if I can make a little money and achieve a dream come true, hey, its all good. The problem is, I need things to stack up commercially before I let my emotions take over.
Can anyone clarify the situation regarding RAWS and personal imports? In summary, when holding for 12 months+, it seems you dont need to g othrough RAWS. Anyone able to confirm this please, hopefully with links to a government source website, and \ or contact details (phone numbers ), etc?
The RAWS / SEVS route is only for company's that import vehicles. The Personal Import route bypasses all of that and is designed to be as straight forward as possible (ie. for people who have no experience in importing). Link to page if you have not already come across it. http://www.dotars.gov.au/roads/safety/bulletin/importing.aspx#4.04 There are contacts on the page. If in doubt, put your question direct to them and they will give you a definitive answer. I don't believe you'll have any problems going the PI route. Go for it. I saw a couple of 360s currently for sale at a dealer I use to frequent in Surrey for under 60k this morning, which means privately they must be edging toward 50 (chicken feed).
http://www.dotars.gov.au/roads/safety/bulletin/importing.aspx#5.01 scroll down to point 5. knock yourself out with all that info, straight from the bureaucratic horses mouth... With Raws it is basically the scheme allowing a workshop to plate up to 100 second hand cars a year that are allowed to be imported under the SEVS list of approved cars. So it has nothing to do with bringing in a personal import. Just read the bulletin explaining why they discontinued the 15 year ruling (ie no more cars allowed after 1988 until 2018 when it becomes a 30 year rule), Dotars are blaming the emergence of second hand jap importers and the hoard of rice imports that they were bringing into oz. So i guess another reason to hate ricers Im just salivating at the thought of being able to import cheap f348s, and in a few years time even f355's, but alas its not to be. Damn Japcrap importing F#$#%rs!!!! oooo Simon beat me to it..... There is also a fella in sydney who has plates under the Raws scheme to comply most ferraris from the f348 onwards if you dont want to wait a year of owning a car overseas. However the average cost he quotes is around $20-25k for complying.
Even cheaper if you look around http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/list.asp?s=193&p=&d=0&min=&max=&y1=&y2=&txt=&px=&xsl=list&pagesize=15&filter=TP&o=q&pc= a couple RHD silver 360's there for 45-50k and an original F1 rear wing that you can attach to the back if that floats your boat.....
Can you claim a credit for the VAT on export of the vehicle? At a VAT rate of 17.5%, the maths looks better...
Many thanks guys. From what I've seen here, it would indicate that RAWS is NOT required for an import where it is owned for 12 months+ before importation. This knocks aorund 30k off the cost, and means a 360 is, in fact, around 132k landed in Aus. Further to this, there is, in www.autotrader.co.uk, a 2001 360 convertible F1, going for 54,000 pounds (asking price), which I'm sure could be bargained down. On looking further, the landed price in Aus seems arounf 150k, whereas the sale price might be 225-250k, though for an Aussie dealer delivered car. So far, it does seem like a pretty reasonable margin. If theres anyone out there that is interested in some kind of a commercial arrangement, let me know. I can do this myself, but I'm a newbie at it, and would be happy to go halves with someone. I dont mind stumping up the majority of the cash to do it here; I'm thinking I can buy the car, and you might sort the Aus side of things, and we could share the profit? Aternatively, if you want a car, let me know, and I can bring it in for you. I'm quite flexible, its just that I see an opportunity here which would seem silly to waste. Regards, Rob
hmmmm theres a few big IFS there, firstly $220k marketprice is for an Oz car, it would be safe to assume for a UK imported car knock at least 10 percent off. which takes it down to $200k. I think 10 percent is a also bit generous as im esimating it would be a bit more of a knock down than that. But anyway working on those sums, $200k-150k leaves you with a profit of 50k (33%). I personally dont believe thats a good return on the amount of risk and effort involved from a pure business perspective IMHO. I think if your going to import do it with the idea to own and use, if you sell it and make money then thats just an added bonus. My two shillings
Mate, to a very large extent, I couldnt agree more. I'll own the car for 12 months here in London, which would be great. Its just that when the car finally does get back to Australia, I'm afraid it has to be sold. Whether thats the 22B I currently hold, or a 360, either way, its the same scenario.
From memory the person who (personally) imports the car to Oz has to keep ownership for a minimum of twelve months once registered. Which is not a bad thing, free advertising whilst your driving around.
No. You get the VAT back only if you were the original owner of the vehicle and you were a tourist in the UK, which from memory means less than 12 months visit and of course diminishes your benefit/eligibility when bringing the car to Aus. There is one benefit only, if you export a UK-delivered car you don't have to pay VAT if you re-import it and resell it in the UK later, which is often the only way to get full value for an older car you've had in Aus. Its all a waste of time Rob if you're looking at a car less than 30 years old. This is what we suffer after 50 years of political buggering by local car builders and trade union interests.
Ian, From the calcs I've described above, no one seems to have disagreed with the landed costs I've posted. It would seem, roughly, that a 360 could be had here for around 132k, and the sale price is potentially 170k+. I fully understand that its not a "local" car, and this will cause issues with the price. Hopefully I've captured the issues. Could you please add your specific thoughts? IE, do you feel the costs are too high, the sale price would be too low, I've missed something in the costs I've mentioned, etc? Its quite important for me, and I do feel that others might be curious to know the exact nature of the problems faced with this. On balance of what has been contributed so far, I'm inclined to go ahead with this, but would much appreciate some specific information, if it will help me to not make a big mistake. Thanks, Rob
Having only theoretical knowledge from reading a bunch of other experiences, all I can say is don't buy it expecting to be able to flog it - you might well be able to - but I wouldn't buy it unless I was happy to keep it for quite a while myself.
If the car is imported from the UK with a FFSH then there really should not be too many issues - apart from the accelerated corrosion due to the salt and crud they put on the roads each year. Then again I never saw Ferraris being driven around during that period. As you know normal (daily drive) road cars only have a 10-15 year life expectancy over there.
