Need help with shift alignment, Please!

Chris,
Do you have the bottom of the tranny still off? It's the only way to get the alignment right. You need to have someone sit in the car and shift while you watch from underneath. How it works is then obvious, and getting the thing aligned is pretty easy. The only problem is that things tend to move a little when you tighten the thing down, so you have to take that into account when setting it up. It takes a while, but you will get it.

It will shift much harder without gear oil, but it should still go into gear without being forced.

Birdman

 

Yes Chris, with all the selectors lined up, the tranny is in neutral. The lower selector controls gears 1-2, the middle 2-3, and the upper 4-5.

When you push the shift lever toward the front of the car, the shifter rods going to the gearbox, will move toward the back of the car. If the shift lever is in neutral, and you push it forward to select second gear, the middle selector should be displaced to the rear of the car, selecting second gear.

Your challange now is to fine tune the length and rotational alignment of the shift shaft.

If you are able to select 2nd and 3rd gear, check to see what the alignment of the shift lever looks like in the shift gate. Adjust the length of the shifter rod at the turnbuckle buy backing off on both lock nuts and set the length so that the shift lever is equidistant from the stops in the shift gate. Lock the lock nuts.

With the length now set, you will likely have to tune the rotation a bit. Check to see if you can select all gears now. If not, it's likely that the rotation of the selector fork is not quite right. I believe the detents are set up so that only one selector will move at a time. If you are unable to select a particular gear pair, it is likely the selector fork is trying to push on two selectors at once. Loosen one of the lock nuts and rotate the rear shaft and and attached selector fork relative to the front rod a tiny bit and relock. Repeat this process until you are able to select all gears and the shift liver is in the middle of the shift pattern. When all is set, ensure the locks are good and tight and check shifting again.

If you are have difficulty getting the rotational alignment correct, you may want to try the factory method. I believe it directs you to place the gear lever and tranny elements into second gear, the shift shaft forward and the middle selector back. Presumably, with the shift shaft length correct, the grear shift lever aligned by the gate, and the selector fork aligned by the selectors, you can tighten everything up and it will remain aligned. I'm going to try this method.

This process of course assumes the shift shaft seals are correct and are not unduly putting drag on the shift shaft.

I'm still waiting for a replacement boot to seal the chassis tube where the front shift rod exits. One thing I did prior to reinstalling the shift rod, was to polish the rear shift rod with 1200 wet and dry paper, used with WD-40, where the O-rings seal, then cleaned and lightly oiled the surfaces with engine oil. I hope your rear shift rod is clean and smooth.

I hope this helps.

Bill

 

Over the years on 308's mondials and 348's I have had many engine outs and transmission repairs. I have always used this method as taught to me by an FNA mechanic. It has never failed and needs basically no fiddling. In fact it is just plain easy. I can't remember if the middle selector is 2nd but basically it is not hard to figure out which is second and then insert the shifter into the gate and tighten. I don't know why this process is like a black art. It is actually very simple and Bill told you a perfect way to do it.

 

Very logical!

 

The middle selector is 2nd.

The FNA method works, so does using Kermit's tool that aligns the shift shaft in the center of the gate between 2nd & 3rd.

The tricky thing about the whole procedure is that the alignment tends to shift when the turnbuckle nuts are tightened. I suspect that's what happened to you.

The other thing about the FNA procedure is that you can end up with the shifter not centered in the gate. Ie: The shifter goes a different distance into the 2nd gear gate slot than it does into the 3rd gear slot. In extreme cases, in one direction it'll go to the end of the gate in one gear, and about half way into the gate in the other gear.

It really does need to be centered so it isn't always placing some pressure on the synchros when the car is in neutral.

I am making an assumption that the tranny shifed properly before you started this procedure. There have been cases where something was bent or out of place beyond just the shift shaft length & position. Best way to diagnose this is to sit with a bright light & watch how things move with a partner in the car activating the shifter.

 

Verell can you explain the kermit method

 

I just finished buttoning up the tranny sump tonight. I first ran a thread chaser over all the studs then used new nuts and bellvue washers and just snugged them up with an electric drill, fitted with a 1/4-inch adapter and a 10 mm socket. The drill was set on a light torque setting for initial seating, followed by a moderate torque setting on the second pass. Tomorrow, I'll torque them up, then refit the alternator, bracket, belt, and heat shield bolt.

I tried the factory method of adjusting the linkage in second gear. This worked very well. Shifting between second and third, it was easy to adjust the linkage length. I'll do a final tightening tomorrow too, with the added refinement of a couple of slender wooden wedges to hold the shift lever in the center of the second gear slot while the tranny is in second gear.

By the way, I used a high temperature silicone gasket sealant on both sides of the gasket and laid down about a 1/16-3/32-inch bead in the center of the flange and outlining the bolt holes. This was about the perfect amount as just a tiny bit of sealant ozzed out the sides.

The gaskets, both engine and sump, only go on one way. Be sure you do a trial fitting the on covers to make sure all the holes line up before adding sealant. I found that bonding the gasket to the cover first, then laying on a top side bead and offering up the unit to the block worked well. It's easier to lay a neat bead down on the piece when it's on the bench.

Bill

 

Kermit sells a fairly simple tool. It's got a cylindrical body with a cone on one end. It's split down the middle.
You put the 2 halves around the shift handle and a hose clamp around the cylindrical portion to hold the halves together.

Center the shift handle in the gate in neutral between 2nd & 3rd, push the conical end down to wedge the shifter in that positionn & tighten the hose clamp to keep it there.

Suspect bill308 is going to use the wooden wedges to achieve a similar effect.

 

Against everones good advice, and because sometimes I am just a masochist, I removed the front header from underneath the car instead of removing the fuel tank. I had to take the shift rod out, which required me to also remove the console, which required me to also install Verells chrome aluminum lever bezels, and while I was at it I shined up the vinyl and reglued some vinyl and fixed some wire connections and took the shift box apart and cleaned and greased it and..... So I had to deal with this shift lever thing too. I feel its the only way I am going to learn the car is to take stuff apart.

I spent a lot more time thinking about it than actually doing it, but in the end it was so simple. I pushed the rod from the gearbox into 3rd gear. I knew the connecting bolt would be horizontal to the car in the second/third gear plane, and I meant to put it in second, but I was thinking backwards laying under the car. I don't think it really matters. I then connected the rods back together with the adjuster, and looking inside the car, made sure the lever was in the center slots. I then spun the adjuster until the lever was back down in the third gear slot, but not so far it touched the back of the slot. Then I shoved it forward into second, making sure it went in, but again so it wasnt so far it went to the end of the slot. I also stopped along the neutral position just to see it looked right, and then went back under to tighten it, after shoving it back into third so it holds position. Before I tightened it, I wiggled the rod coming out of the gearbox left and right, as there is some slop when its in gear, and I eyeballed the center range of its motion. This is where I kept it while I tightened the locknuts down. And they need to be really tight!

The car shifts absolutely perfect, and has no difficulty with any gear, not even second. They all work great. I swear this is no more than a 5 to 10 minute job.

 

Christopher,

I'm not sure where you are in your project, but for now I'll assume you've only started to think about the adjustment procedure. So,

1. Observe the distance the stalk of the shift shaft is from the ends of the 2nd and 3rd gear gate ends. It should be the same. My car has about 1/8 inch clearance now, while at rest, in either 2nd or 3rd gear. If yours is not similar, then you will likely have to lenghten or shorten the rod length at the adjuster.

2. Shift the gear lever into 2nd gear. By doing this you lock the selector fork in the transmission between the 1st-rev and 4th-5th bellcranks. This only happens in 2nd gear. This is a good thing as it is a known reference position for the transmission end of the shift shaft. This action effectively fixes the selctor fork, on the end of the shift shaft, from rotating. The shift shaft can only translate (axially) back to neutral or 3rd gear if you elect to do so.

3. With the shift linkage in 2nd gear, observe the rotational alignment of the gear shift lever. The challange is to centralize the gear shift stalk rotationally, with respect to edges of the gate.

4. If there was a for-aft spacing issue in (1) above, you need to release the lock nuts in both ends of the shift shaft adjuster. Remember, the threads on the shaft coming from the front of the car are right handed at the adjuster turnbuckle. The threads on the end of the shaft going to the tranny are left handed. Once the lock nuts are backed off a bit, turn the adjuster turnbuckle to either lenghten or shorten the shift shaft. After an adjustment, check the new for and aft clearance relative to the gate ends in 2nd and 3rd gear. If it is now satisfactory, lock the rear lock nut, the one closest to the tranny, good and tight. Now check the rotational alignment of the gear shift lever stalk. If it's where it should be, lock the remaining lock nut good and tight against the forward end of the turnbuckle.

At this point the linkage should be in fore-aft and rotational alignment. With everything tightened up, shift through all the gears and watch the gear shift stalk clearance in the 2nd and 3rd gear slot. You should be good to go.

I hope this helps.

Bill

 

Verell,

I was going to refine the centering of the gear shift stalk by inserting a couple of wooden wedges between the 2nd gear gate edges and the shift gear stalk, but there is a change in geometry just below the gate that prevents this. The good news is that this refinement was just not necessary. In fact, the factory procedure works very well. It took 3-tries to get the length right but only 1-try to get the rotational alignment correct. The car shifts better than ever.

Bill

 

Odds are that it won'd change things much. But the only way to find out if the new motor mounts shifted anything will be to try your shifter. Shouldn't have affected the rotational position, but the length may be slightly off.

 

I just dropped my engine in the other day and yes, I had to adjust the linkage a bit. This time, after I centered the shifter, I had my wife run through the gears as I listened to the trans. You can hear if the gears are hitting correctly. Just a slight further adjustment and all gears were set. Try it. Whole job took about 15 minutes.

 

I think my length is slightly off, but my only question is whether or not it's hurting anything.

In the course of removing a mount to drill the mounting plate so no oil accumulates (and to replace the breather tube) I noticed in horror at one point that the jack had released some and put engine weight pressure on the turnbuckle (I wasn't sure there was enough give there when lifting the engine so I disconnected it). I removed the pressure right away but something happened. Now when I shift out of 5th it doesn't want to slide easily in the neutral zone. With just a fraction of pressure aft it does so I've learned to compensate. It needs attention but I'd rather wait until I'm "in there" for some other reason.

Seamus

 

Cristopher,

You're quit welcome. Please ignore the previous non-response, I pushed the wrong button in my PM to you.

As to whether you will have to adjust your linkage after installing new motor mounts, maybe, but probably not. The new ones may have slightly different geometry than the old ones due to wear, but try them and see. Observe the clearance to the 2nd and 3rd gate ends and clearance to the side of the gate. If it looks ok, it probably is.

Bill