348 Challenge good deal? | FerrariChat

348 Challenge good deal?

Discussion in '348/355' started by kx5fast, Oct 7, 2005.

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  1. kx5fast

    kx5fast Karting

    Jul 4, 2005
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    RP
    #1 kx5fast, Oct 7, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    After running my 512TR around the track a few times I thought that I should probably look into buying a purpose built car before I crunched my baby. Attached are photos of a 348 Challenge car that is in my area, and I am curious who, if anyone, can give me a value range on this car. As the ID plate indicates, it is #33 of 100 factory cars built, but quite frankly, I am not clear if that means 33 that year or 33 altogether? Is this a rare dog? Or is this a run 'o' the mill 348? Any input would be greatly appreciated. (BTW, 39K is the ask for this).

    Rod
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  2. Davato

    Davato Guest

    Jun 3, 2004
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    Florent
    #2 Davato, Oct 7, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Hello,

    Here is a late specifications 348 Challenge ( 18" wheels, wing, etc... ).

    The main upgrades were done to the chassis with bronze instead of supension bushes, air ducts, ECU, exhaust, shocks, springs, ...

    It's much better to drive compared with a serial car but very far from the 355 CH.

    I've raced one in France in the Hill Climb Championship, it had much more horse power but how much and why I don't know !

    All the best,


    Florent
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  3. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
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    #3 hardtop, Oct 7, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    In 1994 the factory produced "factory challenge cars" 32 TB's and 13 TS's. However, they look like any other 348 when new. All 348's that were raced a kit installed separately by a dealer. The car you are looking at is a Serie Speciale that they made 100 of. Some were TS's as well as TB's. Many, like this one had the kit installed and ran in the series. As far as the price goes, can't say without knowing overall condition, freshness of drivetrain, spares, etc.

    DAve
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  4. kx5fast

    kx5fast Karting

    Jul 4, 2005
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    Dave,
    Overall condtion is good (for a race car) no evidence of any major hits. Spares, I think none. As far as freshness of drivetrain, the current owner has no idea, he bought it from someone who campaigned regulary (bought it because he thought it was downright cool, and I tend to agree.) So this was in fact a dealer installed kit, not something built by the factory?
     
  5. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
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    Mr. Sideways
    No, the SS was factory. From the 348 Enthusiasts' Guide web page:

    Here are the improvements that were made during Ferrari 348 production:
    http://webpages.charter.net/aircover/348/1994Ferrari348Spider.html


    1. 05/30/91 differential side seal—production improvement
    2. 05/30/91 Bosch starter motor changed to Nippon—production improvement
    3. 10/10/91 cam seal housing modification—reduced oil leakage
    4. 10/10/91 double plate-clutch changed in favor of single-plate clutch—production improvement
    5. 10/10/91 new alignment specs—improved handling
    6. 10/10/91 improved mounting of front bonnet grill to address warpage
    7. 10/10/91 front suspension shocks and springs—production improvement
    8. 06/01/92 rear A-arm fix point height reduction—production improvement
    9. 06/01/92 Delco Alternator changed to Nippon—production improvement
    10. 08/18/92 door grills—improved strength
    11. 08/24/92 oil sump tank ground strap—improved gauge operation
    12. 11/03/92 front timing bearing—reduced noise
    13. 08/18/93 harmonic balancer replacement—reduced weight - added 2hp

    14. 08/20/93 clutch thrust bearing/slave—production improvement



    Other factory enhancements:

    the change in final drive ratio

    The 1994 348 Spiders have a 4.34 to 1 final drive ratio.

    The 1993 348 TS's have a final drive ratio of 3.53 to 1 (click here: http://maximum-cars.com/Cars/Car.php?carnumber=337 ).

    The 1992 & 1993 Ferrari 348 tb and ts Serie Speciale had their rear track widened by 50mm from 1578mm to 1628mm by adding 25mm of offset to each wheel, and their final drive was shortened from 26/27 on the earlier cars to 25/29 on the SS. A taller fifth gear was fitted (early cars having p/n 70000592), to maintain top speed with the new lower main gear installed (click here: http://www.ferrariclub.com/faq/348versions.html ).

    The 1990 348 TB's have a final drive ratio of 3.56 to 1 (click here: http://www.*************/cars/564.html).

    the stainless steel fuel line change, the major change to the Spider one-can exhaust from the old 2-can muffler, rear subframe upgrade to part number 4628, the change from the Motronic 2.5 to Motronic 2.7 ECUs (at and above chassis #86406), the increase in redline to 7800 RPMs (Spider, SS, Challenge, Competizione), the battery location switch from the rear bonnet to beneath the front bonnet (1992), larger intake plenums (for GTS, GTB, Competizione), 50mm wider track via 25mm wheel offsets, exhaust cam pulley setting re-indexed (U.S. Challenge 348's and Euro GTB, GTS, and Spiders), and the front bonnet A/C fuse switch from blade to inline bullet.

    1989 model Ferrari 348's did not have the mad mouse seat belts. Early 1989 models had an external radio antenna.

    1992 models and up came with body colored side skirts and spoilers. SS models had a reverse curve front spoiler (and small lip), removed rear grill, kevlar seats, chrome prancing horse "cavallino" emblems front and rear, strengthened door panels, leather interior door panels, and a taller 5th gear.

    Challenge models also came with aluminum pedals, an alternate fuel pump, a lighter front bumper, roll cage mounts, carbon fiber brake cooling ducts, a bigger heat shield, rubberized tow hooks front and rear, exhaust timing advanced, and 18 inch speedline racing wheels (225/40 ZR 18 front and 265/40 ZR 18 rear).

    Competizione models came with carbon fiber bumpers, aluminum and carbon fiber "thin" front bonnet and rear decklid, carbon fiber undertray, F40 half-shafts, upgraded fuel mapping in the ECU chips, lexan rear window, 15 inch brakes, and a strengthened frame.
     
  6. kx5fast

    kx5fast Karting

    Jul 4, 2005
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    Dave, having said all that, is the car value priced, or overpriced. Bear in mind I have no illusion of making any money. my intent is to get a car that I can track on the weekends, for fun. Parts and service do not frighten me, cost of racing you know. However, when my fun meter hits "0" on this car (or one like it) will I have any likelyhood of recovering the 39K in, say, 2 years, or do these drop like a rock?

    Rod
     
  7. hardtop

    hardtop F1 World Champ

    Jan 31, 2002
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    It seems to me 39K would be OK if you can get the drivetrain checked out OK. I would try to negotiate hard on this one, though. There are not going to be a lot of buyers banging on the door. I defintely would not buy without a bill of good health, however.

    Dave
     
  8. Llenroc

    Llenroc F1 Veteran
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    Jun 9, 2004
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    Vern
    Hi Rod, Just some thoughts on the 348 you are looking at and kind of a repeat of what Dave said: As far as I remember there were no "factory assembed" '93 challenge cars all were road cars with the factory race kit installed by dealers. The '94 cars had some of the mods done at the factory, roll cage floor plates for example were installed when the cars were built. All of the '93 cars in the US would have been SS's there were only 100 or in some circles 80 cars produced. I would be concerned about condition of the engine and gearbox since current owner appears not to know anything about it and it has been campaigned for a time. Anything else is somewhat minor to repair(as Ferraris go). Have a leakdown/compression test done. The engines and trans. are expensive to repair as you are probably already aware. The price sounds reasonable if the mechicals are sound. The only problem I found on my 348 was the shift linkage(cable) is crap, I wonder how much of a problem it would be in a race situation. That would also lead me to wonder about the condition of the gearbox. I think you would really have to understand the uniqueness of that paticular Ferraris' shift idiosyncrasies not to hurt that gearbox, especially in a race situation. Good luck on this. Regards, Vern
     
  9. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    May 20, 2003
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    Ira Schwartz
    #9 Ira Schwartz, Oct 12, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Yes, this car appears to be a 348 Serie Speciale with the factory Challenge kit installed (ALL 348 Challenge race cars- as opposed to the 348 Challenge street cars- were dealer prepared, not factory- the '94 "Challenge" cars were not race-ready without the kit, and most never had it installed). IF it's got a straight tub (unlikely) and a strong engine/transaxle, it's a good deal in my opinion, but without a test drive and compression test and leak-down test, you won't know. I own a '93 SS Challenge race car and can tell you more if you care to e-mail me. Good luck.
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  10. davey_jones

    davey_jones Formula Junior

    Sep 28, 2002
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    Dave
    I know of a true 348ts challenge car for sale (from factory).
    9,000 miles, major completed a couple months ago. Price is more though.... $50k range - has a few extras also. Said was never raced..
     
  11. RossoCorsaItaly

    RossoCorsaItaly F1 Rookie
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    Jun 9, 2004
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    Kevin
    I've seen them go for $35-38k for an 89 model. It's alot of bang for the buck, that's for sure.
     
  12. Teenferrarifan

    Teenferrarifan F1 Rookie

    Feb 21, 2003
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    Erik
    Is this car street legal?
    Erik
     
  13. kx5fast

    kx5fast Karting

    Jul 4, 2005
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    #13 kx5fast, Oct 12, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Nope, not street legal. Let me post an interior shot here and let me know if this tells you more. The car was campaigned by the previous owner, the current owner took it to driving shcool for two days, got hsi license, raced it once and put it in the hangar. Now he is off to Hawaii where he lives in the winter.

    The current owner is very equipment and airplane/performance savvy, so I have no doubts that he would not have intentionally abused the car. He is a little older (60) and past the "out of control" driving stage, so think his stewardship has been good. He would merely sell it to me for what he paid and move on to the next airplane/boat/jet/ you name it toy. Tomorrow, I fly down to Thunderhill in Willows to test drive a Porsche RS American. Any of you challenge owners have a comaprison to the P car versus the 348 Challenge?

    Rod
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  14. Ira Schwartz

    Ira Schwartz Formula 3
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    May 20, 2003
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    Rod- You have a PM.
    Ira
     

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