Ferrari investigating 'hole nose' leak

Maybe this is the point: if you copy someone´s blueprints, you´re not having any idea, you´re just copying. Maybe this is the "copying too much" wich you were talking about.

Then we agree that some kind of penalty is reasonable.

Sometimes I think that the penalty for McLaren was too severe. But then I remember how badly Ron Dennis managed this problem; he even tried to sign a pact of mutual non-agression with Ferrari while the affair was going on: that was almost funny. So I say: go swivel, Ron!!

Oh, no, more conspiracy theories.

 

Perhaps I should have been more specific - stealing from others I don't agree with, copying must happen for all the reasons Pete mentions.

And lets face it, in F1 you generally can't directly use stolen information as it is so specific to a chassis/engine/aero package (the Ferrari/Maclaren issue was obviously a different situation!)

 

I find it difficult to see the logic in that. Copying is effectively stealing! The end result of seeing an innovation in another car, photographing it, copying it and building it into your car is the same as seeing someone else's blueprints and copying them. OK, it takes a bit longer and it's a bit more difficult but either way you are still stealing someone else's ideas.

And, contrary to what was suggested in an earlier post, it is not legal to copy a copyrighted or patented item even when it is in the public domain. If an F1 team patented an idea it couldn't be reproduced by other teams - ask yourself why they don't do that.

 

Uhhhhh....

Ron Dennis is the guy who turned over the Alonso emails, isn't he? If he was up to his neck in the "conspiracy" then wouldn't he have simply given Alonso what he wanted and kept his mouth shut, saving himself $100 million and the WCC & WDC?

I think RD was in the dark about a lot of stuff going on under his watch. He is a dumb manager but not a necessarily a nefarious one.

 

It is very difficult to draw a line between "copying" and "inspired by" and even harder to convey that distinction in a brief online wordbite. If everything on an F1 car had to be uniquely designed by each team and different from all others it would be ridiculous.
This subject really needs to be discussed at a bar over a beer

Writing patents is time and resource consuming and it takes years to get one granted - and only then you can sue someone who infringes your patent (unless they are simply using it for "research" and are not making it as a commercial proposition). Oh - and you need to submit an application in every jurisdiction you want to protect... /rant - I shouldn't have started

 

Sorry, I don´t know what you mean, but it doesn´t matter, I was just joking. I think that Ron Dennis is one of the best out there.

But I also believe that he did screw things up last year. I don´t know if he was aware of all that was going on within his team, but anyway, he´s the boss, he has the obligation of knowing it. Or at least he should be responsible of what his team does; when the affair became public he didn´t react to the crisis in an elegant fashion either. And then he couldn´t manage his drivers. Well, I suppose that everybody has a bad year sooner or later.

But enough off-topic. This thread is not about Ron Dennis.

 

No...let's bash Massa instead

 

IanMac,

I don't really want to continue this but I find it amazing that you (and others) cannot view this from the point of technological improvements and distance this sport from the concept of "stealing".

Think about it, yeah seriously. If copying was not allowed or F1 teams suddenly started patenting concepts then:
1. Cooper would still be in F1 and would probably have won every race since they put the engine in the middle of the car in '59 (I think).
2. Jaguar would be the only race team to use disc brakes ... and heck they don't even race in F1
3. McLaren (or is it Lotus) would be the only team with the life saving carbon tub ...
4. I could go on ...

Thus unless you want team Z to have to pay royalties to other teams there is absolutely NO place in a sport that completely and utterly (no matter how hard Max and the FIA try) revolves around engineers either creating brand new ideas, OR seeing and developing other engineers great ideas.

Seriously just think how pathetic the sport would be if Ferrari was forced not to be able to run a mid-engined car ... because Cooper owned the rights. And please don't say their patent would have run out by now ... heck I do not want to have to wait n years for everybody else to be able to make the most of a brilliant idea, where the heck is the interest and fun in that! I want ideas to advance at a frantic pace, to amaze me with their cleverness. F1 is soooooooo much more than a few races every season ... that is only 10% of what it is about for real enthusiasts.
Pete

 

Pete

I think you misunderstood my last post, if you read any of my earlier posts on this subject you will see where I stand. I was saying that I see little or no practical difference between 'copying' another team's ideas and 'stealing' them, yet a lot of people here believe one is OK and the other not. For all the reasons you list I have no problem with teams using ideas and technology devised and developed by others.

 

Glad you said that Ian, as I have to agree with Pete..

That is why IMO it is important that there are clear ruling's from the FIA, and not adhoc ruling's as seen last year that are open to Max and his interpetation.