Ghibli spyder at RM Monterey | FerrariChat

Ghibli spyder at RM Monterey

Discussion in 'Maserati' started by thecarnut, Jul 19, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2006
    3,229
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    #1 thecarnut, Jul 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  2. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,987
    #2 wbaeumer, Jul 19, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2012
    Yes, and what I heared is not the best!

    Its the ex-FLOTEX-car, that once was owned by a member of this forum. He discovered that it was made as a coupe and chopped.
    It seems that the engine comes from a Kyalami or QPIII.

    The car was later sold by the German owner to the USA and the owner there sold it on -as a replica!- to Ed Waterman!

    #115.1043 originally was delivered new to a dealer in Bologna, Italy.
    If the story RM mentioned is true reg. the "30 years ownership" then a 2nd car #1043 exist within the USA and possibly this one with RM is the real thing.
     
  3. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,445
    Hershey, PA
    Walter,
    This is the real #1043. This is the car I asked you about a few months ago when I was offered it.

    Joe
     
  4. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,987
    Good to hear! But now two #1043 are in the US.....!
     
  5. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2006
    3,229
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    I have photos of the other #1043 and they are not the same car. Therefore, Walter is correct, there are two Ghibli spyders claiming to be #1043 and one of them is clearly not it.

    I do not believe this fact should be a black cloud over this car as the imposter spyder was so badly done that it should be clear to anyone with a minimal knowledge of Ghiblis to tell the difference between the real and the fake.

    Ivan
     
  6. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    95,935
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Is anyone bothering to notify RM?

    You sound like you have the evidence Ivan.

    BTW, in the Lamborghini world, a long time owner (10 years) of a car has finally gotten the duplicate chassis number resolved on his car. His was no fake. It was just a factory screw up.

    So it can happen.
     
  7. Maserati Blue

    Maserati Blue Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2010
    947
    Europe
    I have no idea what happened to the above mentioned cars, but I do know that the factories of Ferrari, Maserati and Lamborghini (and some non Italian ones, like the Bugatti factory) have all re-used chassis numbers.

    I remember some cars that got shipped with the same chassis number to the same owner who owned the original chassis number, so for example someone who owned #123 would later buy a new car and the factory would stamp it as #123 again, so as to appear as if it was the "old" car, thus the new car would be untaxed!

    That was just one of the tricks, there are 2-3 other tricks like the above...

    Maybe relevant to this car or maybe not...
     
  8. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,987
    So far I found no less than 9 Ghiblis with a double identity, all of them in the US. Some of this cars and (!) also their "doubles" we delivered to the US.
    In the 60s/70s oversea was far, far away from Italy and nobody knew about the wonders of the www....
     
  9. Maserati Blue

    Maserati Blue Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2010
    947
    Europe
    haha well said Walter.
     
  10. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,987
    Bora #158 was delivered to Parma ansd then sold to Bergamo. Little later the car got a carnée and was ssold to Switzerland.

    Another car with that VIN used the same carnée to be sold to the USA.

    Go figure....
     
  11. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2006
    3,229
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    I do not think there is anything to notify to RM.

    I have no reason to doubt the car RM is auctioning is the genuine #1043. I do not want to get into details but I do know that the other #1043 is a fake and not a factory screw up.

    Ivan
     
  12. f308jack

    f308jack F1 Rookie

    Jun 7, 2007
    4,300
    Cape Town, South Afr
    Full Name:
    Jack Verschuur
    Don't forget to mention owners themselves messing with numbers: I came close to falling for the joke with a 512 BB many moons ago. The car was impounded while I was on my way to go inspect it for purchase, thankfully not a day later! Caveat emptor.
     
  13. staatsof

    staatsof Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Mar 13, 2005
    95,935
    Fuggetaboutitland
    Full Name:
    Bob
    Oh I though the situation was reversed.
     
  14. 1Hurthutoy15

    1Hurthutoy15 Karting

    Sep 16, 2009
    108
    One thing is for sure, that vin plate is 100% genuine. This car has all the correct features of an early spyder. The wheels appear to be aftermarket but New Borranis bolt on are still available. Also this is a factory 5sp car not an automatic conversion.

    I know of 3 Ghibli spyders with the same serial number. One is in the U.S the other in the UK and the last one was last seen in France.

    Jacques
     
  15. vignalespider

    vignalespider Rookie

    Aug 12, 2008
    41
    CH
    Just out of curiosity: what is this number?
     
  16. Cris Bertschi

    Cris Bertschi Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    808
    Buenos Aires
    Full Name:
    Cristián Bertschi
    #16 Cris Bertschi, Jul 26, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Trying to provide some information to a controversy originated in post #2, please find a copy of a notarized bill of sale which in combination with a copy of the title shows the most recent owner since 1980.
    These documents come with the original car, of course.

    Regards.
    Cris.-
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  17. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2006
    3,229
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    Anybody see the grey Ghibli spyder at RM? What were the results? How was the car?

    Ivan
     
  18. italiancars

    italiancars F1 Rookie

    Apr 18, 2004
    3,445
    Hershey, PA
    If I remember correctly $360 hammer.

    BTW you can watch both Gooding and RM auctions on-line through their websites.
     
  19. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2006
    3,229
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    Did someone inspect the car? How was it?

    Ivan
     
  20. Wolf

    Wolf Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    500
    I did. Terrible metalic-paint with to many flakes. Conversion too Borranis.
    Not a good car.

    Regards

    Wolfi
     
  21. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2006
    3,229
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    Thanks. It is difficult to know where the true market is on Ghibli spyders when cars being auctioned are not good examples.

    Ivan
     
  22. Marangen

    Marangen Karting

    Feb 25, 2011
    99
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Martin M
    Nice Graphite metallic. Anyone knows how it is labelled if I want to ask paint shop to find this colour?

    Is there a paint code available?
     
  23. licodix

    licodix Formula Junior

    Feb 7, 2009
    334
    Central
    Full Name:
    Barchetta Mad Max
    Agreed - and same is true for the Coupes ...
    But why shold one owner sell a perfect car at an auction if he can get the right price for a very good example straigth away?
     
  24. thecarnut

    thecarnut F1 Rookie
    Rossa Subscribed

    Apr 22, 2006
    3,229
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    The Car Nut
    I have never sold a car at auction but I've seen prices at auction that would be very difficult to replicate in the "real world".

    Ivan
     
  25. readplays

    readplays F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,614
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    Well in that case- thank you Cris- I knew the car quite well from about 1985 to the late 90's or so as it was in my hometown. It was a very nice original car in whatever the original Maserati color closest to that would have been.
    It's a shame that it was 'restored/freshened up'. It's shinier now but it was a really nice original driver. Perhaps the new owner will consider re-spraying by someone more attuned to Maserati originality, and sourcing the right wire wheels.
     

Share This Page