FCA New England (Please not ANOTHER lame year)

Hi BigHead, etc.

So, are we doomed to yet another year of lame polo and golf and shine/show, or will the NE FCA group finally get to drive their cars on a proper track the way G-d and Enzo intended.

Yes, i know WG and LR are the Empire State thing, but we have a few tracks in NE too.

Look at what SCDA has got at http://www.scda1.com/schedule/

Then there is COMSCC at http://www.comscc.org/sched06.htm

So, here we are, Ferrari, supposedly a marque built with racing in mind... and what do we NE FCA members have for 2006 for track events???


And yes, i am egging you on. C'mon, let us have some fun. Pah-leeze, not another polo or golf event only year (oh, and shine and show). And yes, glad you have benefits, but how about you auction off one of your unused cars instead and have a track day for those of us who DRIVE their cars???

 

Priceless Thread- let's hope the Grey Poupon crowd will approve of some Hellmans' style events... hehe

 

Dear Steve:

Ok, I'm responding to your rude egging. In fact, I responded to the very same egging you posted in March of 2004 (maybe you forgot it).

http://70.85.40.84/~ferrari/forum/showthread.php?t=12173

The New England Region is among the busiest regions in the entire FCA. The number of events we run dwarfs those of, say, the Empire State Region and the Penn Jersey Region. A bit of history - all three of these regions used to be the Northeast Region, before getting split up because it was just too big compared to other regions around the country. When it was split, those with the experience running track events continued to do it - and those members happened to be members of the Empire State Region, so our track events continue to run under the ESR masthead. But since any member can attend any event run by "another" region, lots of us NER folk attend ESR track events (and they in turn, attend our "lame" non-track driving events).

For the record, in 2005, we hosted three big Ferrari shows, raising over $100,000 for charity. We had weekend getaways to VT, CT, RI and ME. We had Sunday drives, GP viewings and lots of free events. We went kart racing and paid visits to a children's hospital to hand out gifts. And of course we had nice dinner get-togethers with our spouses and significant others.

You may find this all exceedingly dull, and may choose to b*tch about it publicly, that the FCA doesn't have exactly the types of events that YOU want.

Well, I'll reissue the SAME challenge to you that I issued 22 months ago - stop moaning and do something about it. You want to run a track event at NHIS? Stop p*ssing around on the Internet, and go out and run one! As I said back then, "Seriously, Steve, if you'd like to run a track event at NHIS, I will make sure that the club is 100% behind you. I have the official FCA track manual, and you can have a copy. We'll need to come up with $30k+ dollars, of course, to rent the track, buy equipment, advertise, find instructors and most importantly, find entrants. But it can be done. Or if you want to run an auto-cross, be my guest! Seriously! Or some other event, any Ferrari-type event, be my guest. If you'd like to be responsible for organizing the next event, I'd be delighted. No kidding. Let me know!"

And, yet, in the intervening 22 months, I haven't heard from you, offering to run a track event or an auto-x, or anything else for that matter.

Do you really think it's easy to do this? Do you think that by writing some inane FChat post that you'll be able to goad other people into putting on an event just for you?

Let's review.

>For track events, the FCA runs track events at Lime Rock, Watkins Glen, Tremblant, Summit Point, and Pocono. That's all the real tracks within a six hour drive of you, Steve, aside from NHIS. So why not at NHIS? Speaking as someone who does 25+ track days a year, with a few thousand laps under my belt at NHIS (as a driver and instructor), its simply because there isn't any interest. Yes, not enough interest. Why? For several reasons. First, the road course at NHIS isn't that great. It's technical and does not flow well, unlike LRP or WGI. It's also very hard on low cars with stock suspensions, like street 355s, 348s, TRs etc. You will scrape the front end of softly-sprung street Ferraris under braking and turning for turns 3 and maybe 10. Who wants to do that?

>Plus, the number of Ferrari drivers (not just FCA members) in the greater Boston area that actually go to the track, you could count on one hand, MAYBE two. And I know 'em all. There are some more down in CT and other parts of New England, but we don't have enough Ferrari drivers in this area who'd go to NHIS for a track event to fill even one run GROUP, much less a full day. The track events at, say, LRP, are filled with people from New York and other areas. On this board, AFAIK, the only FChat members in this area that go to the track are... me, Chris ***as, Dan Watkins, and that's it.

>If you want to go to a track event, we'd love to see you. FCA runs track events at WGI in May, Tremblant in June, Pocono in June, LRP with Ferrari Challenge in July, LRP in August, WGI in September, Summit Point and Pocono in October. But I've never seen you at the track at one of these events, Steve, though we have all these opportunities.

So, Steve, it seems like your point isn't that the FCA does not have enough track events, it's rather that it doesn't have any track events at the ONE TRACK in the Northeast that you'd like to run at - NHIS. It's not a lack of opportunity, Steve, it's a question of whether you really want to or not.

Everyone should remember that the FCA, like other clubs, is a VOLUNTEER organization. People like Charlie Vest and I volunteer our time, money and effort to put together events for everyone's enjoyment. For those of you with longer memories, remember that the FCA/NER effectively did NOT EXIST three years ago. The old Northeast Region was focused on the NYC area, and didn't have much if anything in this area. Since the New England Region was formed, we've gone from nothing to being among the "busiest" regions in the country. Indeed, given that the only regions with (a few) more events are ones with driving weather 12 months a year (Los Angeles area, Northern CA, Florida), I think we're doing pretty darn well.

And most of our events are open to everyone, or we don't bother to check membership, so if you want to "crash" and "free-ride" and enjoy without paying the membership fee like the rest of us, go right ahead. Everyone can come on our GP drives and brunches; everyone can go to Tutto Italiano or the Hartford Concorso. It's all about having fun.

Just don't complain if you're not willing to do the work; in other words, if you want to see the FCA/NER have an auto-cross or a track event at NHIS, please, please, please, please, speak up and volunteer to run it!!!

Until then, please refrain from insulting those of us who have invested hundreds of hours of our time in making the FCA an interesting place for EVERYONE.

vty,

--Dennis

 

As a group, if we decide to host a track event. I will commit to the following. I am confident instructing at LRP, The Glen as well.

1. Help to secure a date at NHIS. We'd better book this ASAP too.

2. Help organize registration and driver grouping

3. Teach either in classroom session or in car or both. Not to sound like an ass but I prolly have more miles at NHIS than anyone else on this board. I logged more than 15,000 miles in 7 years of racing my RX-7 there and average about 3000 miles a year on my bike x's 3 years of that. In 10 years of racing I have raced many miles at many different tracks and still hold both F-USA and SCCA Licenses.

I can also call 6-7 very close racing / instructing friends to assist with instruction. I'm sure they can help me find others too.

4. Help secure raceway ambulance service for the day.

5. I will do this all for free too so long as I get to drive a 12 cyl. car (again) ;-)

 

EXCELLENT to hear, Scott. If you think you can make the #s work, go for it. I don't know off hand what NHIS charges for the day, but I do know that LRP has been jacking up its rates furiously over the last two years. Assume that it's between $12k to $18k? So, all in, expenses could be from $15k to $20k? Amortize that over the # of students you'll get to sign up. If you want to break even, figure on charging around what SCDA charges, or $235, so you'll need around 75, +/-. And of that 75, say 40 or so (at a minimum) will need instructors. So even if you break up that 40 into two groups, that's still 20+ instructors you'll need.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong on the expenses, so maybe it's a break-even proposition at only 50 students, OR you could charge a LOT more than SCDA, in return of a promise of more track time. Still, do the math, and if you're still interested, let us know!

vty,

--Dennis

 

WOW. Ok, as soon as i get back from CES i will call NHIS. Once Club Motorsports opens (if that actually happens) i may be better enabled to help there. So Thu of next week (Jan 12) i will call NHIS and see what it takes. Simply felt FCA had better grip on it all as the Empire State...

And a HUGE THANKS to rsvmille676. Let us all hope we can somehow make it happen. Please, i hope we can.

If not, we could kinda 'slime' off NHIS during an open track day, but safety would be a bit less per se with fewer flag guys but then again maybe i can work on that end too??? Lemme see what i can do AFTER the CES in Vegas.

Cool..

 

Scott, one other point I forgot - you'll need to figure out from where to draw the 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 or 80 students from. Figure on maybe 4-5 folks from FChat, maybe a few other FCA members locally. You'll need to fill the field then with the same folks who run with BMW CCA, PCA, SCDA and COM. Of course, those clubs run their own events - some sell out immediately, some never quite fill up. SCDA is the most expensive, but the easiest to get into. It'd be tough to charge $200+ when the other clubs are charging $100+. Just food for thought.

vty,

--Dennis

 

NHIS is 6000.00 per day and Raceway ambulance is 500.00 I believe. NHIS gladly provides radios and the like to communicate. I believe a 1200.00 deposit is required to book the track, but we would need to do this like tomorrow! It just occured to me that we will also need raceway towing. (Cars weigh a bit more than bikes so tossing them into the back of a pick up truck isn't really feasible.)

a group of 40-60 people is manageable and provides ample track time and space if broken up into 3 groups.

They do require that we have atleast 4 corners worked. Typically, Start/finish, 3, 8 and 12. A way around that its to break the day up into 3 -4 sessions. 1 group on track, 1 group in the classroom / pit area, 1 group watching and working the corners.

I figure if we admit 40-60 cars and allow for 175-200 per day we will cover our costs and if we have extra we can put it towards another track day.

If we can get a date, I already have 3 instructors willing and more than able to assist.

I can also teach / supervise tech inspection in the AM. I will also provide a Pre-tech document ( I have one on my PC some where.) as well as a what to expect document. It covers just that, what you should bring, attitude, relaxation techniques. (you'd be suprised how many people freak out.)

Let me know and if any of you want to start planning I'll help. I can PM anyone interested in helping my contact info.

Lemme know.

Scott.

 

I'm confident I can fill it with the Quattro club, COMSCC and BMWCCA guys. I shy away from many PCA events because quite frankly in this area (my last experience 4 years ago with them) The scared the living #&^$ outta me. Not in a good way either. More of the I'm an instructor (who shall remain nameless) driving a 400 HP porsche turbo and F-ing clueless way.

 

WOW! NHIS is only $6k?!?! Awesome. Would you plan on flagging it with drivers (like club events), or hire corner workers (like SCDA)? So, all-in, that's what, $8k? So, figure 40 students at 200 bucks, plus another 20 instructors for free(?), that's three-four run groups, with plenty of track time. If you can get ~40 paying students, go for it! I don't think getting 20 instructors would be difficult.

vty,

--Dennis

 

In an effort to save $$ for the day. I like using students for flagging. It is a great way to see a certain part of the track up close and you can see when a person does it right or wrong and how to address the corner.

Also, I can line up 20 instructors by weeks end if I need to. All for free yes.

 

Me and the KTR guys would be happy to handle Tech inspections both at the track and prior to the event at our shop in Ayer, MA. Let me know if there is anything else we can do to help?

 

Ayer is too far from the track, can you guys have a post AT the track. Also, see if 'you know who' could perhaps help sponsor the event. i am also going to see if Putnam can chip in and also......

 

Scott,

How about insurance??? If it takes $1,200 to book, i'll cover that. i will call NHIS tomorrow as i travel to Vegas and see what dates we can get. Of course a weekend day is probably best. Will ask the track about details such as insurance as if it is $8k when all is said and done, with a few sponsors, FCA adding it as an official event, we could get it down to $150/car i hope. That is dirt cheap really all things considered IMHO.

i am on this!

 

You guys that care should just run a SCDA event...the website is updated with Ians dates. He has professional flaggers and the whole event is done right. Don't try to reinvent it, go with a group that has some experience.
http://www.scda1.com/

My 2 cents. But what do I know.?..I drive a GT3....

here is a good site as well

http://vista.pca.org/jsr/jsrpca/dales.htm


PS..Make sure you get the paddocks at NHIS as well..

 

Getting a weekend will be next to impossible unless we want to wait 2 years. Between LRRS with 12 weekend events, Nascrap with 3, SCCA with 3 and PCA, VSCCA, VSCRA, PCA, BMWCCA and other stuff, the track weekends are booked solid from April until Oct.

A Monday or Tuesday will be your best bet. Most thursdays are tuning days and fridays are set up / practice days for the sanctioning bodies mentioned above.

2nd we could do an SCDA event but that takes the fun out of it for some of us. ;-) Plus it will be much more costly. As I mentioned before, you can learn quite a bit as a student if you are working a corner. If you are experienced and working a corner you can then relay that info to a student to help them along.

As for insurance, I believe that is included in the price of the track rental.

If the guys from KTR wanna lend their expertise for tech inspection that would be AWESOME! NHIS has "typical" tech rules for cars. No saftey wire required.

We will need to lable the event a Ferrari - "Advanced Driving School" or "Control Clinic". Anything labled track day or timed race event will negate any insurance a person may have on their car should the wall reach out and touch someone.

 

First, for the record yes i owe and am offering Dennis an apology. Yes my egging was harsh, and my hope is that FCA NE has a track event. Had an amazing time with the Empire State guys at Lime Rock during late July and would love to see something for the guys up here who may want to try their hand at a 'casual' track day without having to drive 5 hours each way.


Thanks for the awesome list at http://vista.pca.org/jsr/jsrpca/dales.htm Will print it out and will do my best to NOT conflict with other events.

Agree it may seem better to join SCDA or COMSCC event, though would prefer a 'Ferrari' event and if Dennis is kind enough to make it an FCA event all the better! Tech inspection by KTR is a added plus and Scott is really helping with great info and has contacts/ability (in many ways, HUGE thanks Scott!).

Yes it is 4:13am and here i am getting ready to leave for Vegas... though will call NHIS and see what we can make happen. Even if we only have a single day this year, perhaps we will make inroads to getting a good spot for next year. Not ALL Thursday;s are open track day (i wish they were ) so will see what we can do as i am sure weekends are preferred, but maybe settle for a Friday/Saturday. Also, having a special 'Ferrari' event may make the scheduler/owner a bit more accomidating???

And yes, will make sure we get the paddocks at NHIS.

Even if some FCA NE folks do not track at NHIS, it would probably make for a good event/meet for the club. DARN< my alarm clock JUST went off. i better ready to (literally) jet out of here for Vegas....

 

Steven,

I live for these events and enjoy helping out. At the risk of sounding egotistical. If I can share my knowledge with others by teaching something I truly love, then I am even more fulfilled in my own right.

That and RESPECT MA AUTHORITAH (at the track.)

 

OK, so for a newbie that has never once been on a track and does not wish to do anything funky to his car for the track but would like to get a driving lesson and not destroy his car....is this something to consider? What does tech inspection involve? I know nothing about track driving and think it might be fun, but I have no interest in any modifications to my 308 for the track because it is not likely something I will have time or money to do regularly. Furthermore, I am squeamish about harming my 308!

Birdman

 

Absolutely! This is the perfect opportunity to learn the limits of your car and your self. You can drive it at 80-90% of its ability and yours and learn a great deal about car control and threshold braking.

Tech inspection for your car would simply be making sure the tires are road worthy, braking system in proper working order, no fluid leaks, std seat belts and long sleve shirt and pants with a Snell / DOT approved helmet and your ready to go.

You will not have to add or modify anything on your car. You will need to empty out loose items under the bonnet and deck. Other than that you are good to go.

The only thing you might consider changing (if you haven't already) is a set of steel braided brakelines with new DOT 3-4 fluid. Its just and idea not a requirement.

 

I always do tech inspections with safety in mind. I want to minimize the chances of anyone getting hurt. KTR would do trackside inspections the morning of the event for sure! I also like to offer the service prior to the event to be done at the shop. That way if we find anything wrong there is time and opportunity to fix it. This is not always the case at the track.

 

I just got off the phone with Nick Scelsi at FoNE. They are on board and willing to help.

ROCK AND ROLL!

 

Just got off the phone with Waner at Miller Motorcars. They are on board too.

This is going to be a fantastic event.

 

We would be willing to do what we can here at Boston Sportscar.

Just let us know what you need. Tech inspections are no problem.

Read in an earlier post that you guys will need a track tow vehicle. We can use our flatbed tow truck. It works great for the really low vehicles since it has the low approach bed.

Just let us know. Between KTR, FONE and BSC we should be able to handle everything easily.

Darin

 

Addendum to last post:

Did not mean to infer or volunteer FNE or KTR to handle everything or volunteer their services