Midway | FerrariChat

Midway

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by Texas Forever, Jun 4, 2006.

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  1. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    Sixty-three years ago today saw the beginning of what was perhaps the most important naval battle in our history -- The Battle of Midway.

    Midway was (and still is) a gooney bird spec of an island out in the middle of the Pacific. Almost the entire Japanese fleet was in route to finish off Hawaii. The attack on Pearl Harbor had been a little more than six months earlier, and the Japanese high command wanted to strike a killer blow to force the US to sue for peace.

    The Japanese had 4 carriers, while the Americans had what amounted to two and half flattops. Fortunately, Navel Intelligence had cracked the Japanese code and knew they were coming. Instead of hunkering down at Pearl, the American Navy decided to spring a trap. They loaded up everything they had and steamed to Midway. The Japanese coming from the southeast didn't know they were there.

    It is hard to imagine in our world of instant communication, but each side was blind. The Japanese first attacked Midway, and then the Americans came after them.

    Try and imagine this:

    You are 20 years old. A little over a year ago, you were chasing girls and having the time of your life. You are currently sitting in a small "ready room" inside a carrier. You are listening to your CO lay out the battle plan. The best guess is that the Japanese fleet is 300 miles that-a-way. Your job will be to fly a torpedo bomber and attack the Japanese fleet. Because your plane only has a range of 500 miles, helicopters will be standing by 100 miles off the carrier to pick you up when you ditch on your return.

    Oh, and one more thing. You have only practiced dropping a torpedo from a plane maybe one or two times, if at all.

    Item last was your CO suggesting that you write a letter home.

    As it turned out, sadly, the helicopters were not needed. Of the three squadrons of TBD torpedo planes that launched that day 63 years ago, there was only one survivor - Ensign George Gay who watched the battle floating in the water and was later picked up by a PBY. Everybody else died.

    In the end, though, Midway was a major victory for the United States. We lost the Yorktown, which had been damaged in the Battle of the Coral Sea. The Japanese fleet, however, including four carriers was destroyed.

    It doesn't take much imagination to contemplate how things might have turned out differently had we lost.

    Anchors away, my boys.

    Dale

    PS If you want to find out more, here are two good places to start:


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Midway

    http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/events/wwii-pac/midway/midway.htm
     
  2. Erich

    Erich Formula 3

    Sep 9, 2003
    1,190
    Poway CA
    Full Name:
    Erich Coiner
    Thanks for remembering Doc.

    One nit to pick. In WWII there were no helicopters standing by to bring the boys back. If your plane went dry on fuel, you got wet and stayed that way until a seaplane found you.

    Midway has been called the turning point in the Pacific theater. It came 6 months into a 4 year struggle.
     
  3. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    You're right. I'm embarrassed because my dad was a PBY driver!

    Also the John Ford movie -- Midway -- is excellent. Unlike the Oliver Stone wackjobs of today, he saw no reason to reinvent history. In fact, in this case Ford didn't need to, he was there. Some of the footage in the movie came from him shooting with a hand held camera.

    Dale
     
  4. J.P.Sarti

    J.P.Sarti Guest

    May 23, 2005
    2,426
    Helis were not invented till the 50s, wasn't Midway one of the largest sea battles in history?

    Most of the dive bombers and torpedo planes were shot down with no survivors, one got a lucky hit in and nailed a Japanese carriers rudder.
     
  5. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    882
    In most large organisations or complicated events, a single person or action often does not do much to affect the overall outcome, BUT at midway the actions of a very few(less than a handful) individuals turned the whole event and most likely the rest of history.

    Midway was extremely critical. Had it gone the other way, Germany probably would not have had to worry about a second front.

    I read a lot about Midway and w/o looking it up again, there was a particular marine flyer that chose to face the withering fire from the japanese fleet and made his run. His critical decision led to the japanese defeat. Without the actons of those few alone in their cockpits, things would be quite different.
     
  6. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    Stalin would have cut a deal with the Germans in a heartbeat.

    What you say rings a bell. But at the end of the day, it is not about individual heroes. It is all about sacrifice. This is something that is sorely lacking today, except for a few brave men and women currently serving our country. Please, we should never forget.

    Dale
     
  7. snj5

    snj5 F1 World Champ

    Feb 22, 2003
    10,213
    San Antonio
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    Russ Turner
    #7 snj5, Jun 4, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thanks for remembering

    Midway has been called one of the 10 battles that changed the course of history.

    God bless all the crews, but especially the TBD Torpedo squadrons and their selfless sacrifice clearing the way for the SBDs.

    Here is one of my favorite Robert Taylor prints I have on my wall even now...
    Strike against the Akagi

    Almighty Father , strong to save...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. Texas Forever

    Texas Forever Eight Time F1 World Champ
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    Apr 28, 2003
    85,600
    Texas!
    Russ, thank you for your service. I watched the show on HBO the other night. I don't know how you guys do it.

    And thanks for the pic. Folks, you wanna talk about ******* pucker. Just imagine that you are dive bombing a carrier and just about the entire Japanese navy has got you in their gun sights. It makes driving a race car pale by comparison.

    Dale
     
  9. Tspringer

    Tspringer F1 Veteran

    Apr 11, 2002
    6,155
    Not all the torpedo bombers were shot down. Only one squadron suffered 100% losses, VT-8 from Hornet commanded by John Waldron. They flew the obsolete Douglas TBD Devastator and Ensign Gay was the sole survivor. The other torpedo bomber squadrons suffered heavy losses, but only VT8 was wiped out.

    None of the torpedo bombers got a hit. But of course, they did pull all the Jap fighter cover down to sealevel. Though it was due to nothing more than pure luck, within minutes of the torpedo planes attack being over the US Dive bomber squadrons (who had been lost and who found the Jap carrier force due largely to guesswork) found the Japanese carrier force and attacked before the fighter cover could get back to altitude. This initial attack destroyed the Soryu, Akagi and Kaga. Only the carrier Hiryu survived.

    The Enterprise CAG, Wade McClusky is the SBD pilot racerx is thinking of. He is the guy who found the Japanese and lead the dive bomber attack.

    An attack force from the Hiryu later found and rendered combat ineffective the USS Yorktown which was later sunk (along with the destroyer Hammond) by a Jap submarine. The Hiryu was then sunk by further attacks from the Enterprise and Hornet.

    While US code breaking and intelligence provided the setting for an ambush, the Japanese defeat also had much to do with Admiral Nagumo who commanded the Japanese carrier strike force as he had at Pearl Harbor. Nagumo was indecisive and his overconfidence lead to the Japanese forces failing to take proper defensive and reconnasaince action. Nagumo was a disaster as a task force level combat commander.

    Midway was indeed a critical battle. But... to say that had it gone the other way the war could have ended differently? Nope. The American people were never going to surrender. The Japanese premise that the American people were morally weak and lacked the will power to fight was flat wrong. US Industrial production was going to bury Japan in time. During the course of the war, the Japanese built and launched 3 additional fleet carriers. The US built and launched over 30 with an additional 50 escort carriers. The US built 30 planes to each 1 Japanese. The simple reality is that Japan started a war they had no hope of winning. Admiral Yamamoto (who was educated at Harvard) knew this and told the Japanese leadership as much. A more clear case of political overconfidence and a complete lack of understanding of ones enemy prior to making war on him is hard to come up with.


    Dale.... there was NEVER going to be any deals between Hitler and Stalin. They had already made a deal... the Molotov/Ribbentrop non-aggression pact. Hitler broke it when he invaded. By June of 1942, Germany and the Soviets were locked in a death match. The German summer offensive of 1942 pushed all the way to Stalingrad and the Caucus mountains. The Soviets however had relocated the bulk of their industrial production to east of the Urals and by fall their production was ramped up on a MASSIVE scale. The Soviets were already moving forces from the far east to the German front, confident that war with Japan was not a threat. The Japanese had skirmished with the Soviets in '38 and '39. They wanted no part of that. As was proven in '45 when the Soviets walked all over the Japanese manchurian forces, the Japanese army was in no way capable of waging armored warfare.





    Terry............history major full of worthless data. Wanna know the Army of Northern Virginia's order of battle at Gettysburg?
     
  10. racerx

    racerx Guest

    Nov 23, 2003
    882
    Terry, I believe you are right about that pilot. I think Nagumo was more a victim of happenstance than indecision.

    Had the japanese destroyed what was left of the pac fleet they would have captured Hawaii and taken away our naval beachhead. It would have made future attacks start from the west coast w/o easy resupply. That could have easily changed things giving hitler perhaps years of breathing room to finish off the soviets, especially with all their advanced weaponry coming online like the me 262 and guided missles etc...

    I think it was that big a deal.
     
  11. Bob Parks

    Bob Parks F1 Veteran
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    Nov 29, 2003
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    Shoreline,Washington
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    Robert Parks
    Sikorsky got his first patent for a " direct lift " machine in 1931. He flew his first helicopter in 1939. I saw him fly the VS-300 at Bolling Field in 1940. The U.S. Army Air Force operated helicopters in 1942. I saw those, too.
     
  12. TestShoot

    TestShoot F1 World Champ
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    Sep 1, 2003
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    Beverly Hills
    Bob, what I wouldn't give to hear those stories!
     
  13. tatcat

    tatcat F1 World Champ
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    Sep 3, 2001
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    rick c
    my dad was there aboard the hornet. spoke with some of the pilots who survived the attack at their 50th reunion. bold stuff.
     
  14. rmani

    rmani F1 Veteran
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    Nov 1, 2003
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    damn that's nuts
     
  15. tatcat

    tatcat F1 World Champ
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    Sep 3, 2001
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    rick c
    for sure. one of my buds had a photo book of japanese naval pilots. as one the the hornets' pilots was looking through it he pointed to a picture and said " i killed that son of a *****" we fell out. seems the japanese had distinctive markings on their planes and at the post flight debriefing it was determined who they shot down. another pilot was there with his back seat man. he said as the dove into the battle he told his bud "hold on i'm gonna put this egg right down the stack" he did too. we bought a lot of drinks that night.
     

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