The "How NOT To Pull a GT4 Engine Thread" !!!

Search Index: GT4, engine, pull, remove, R&R, hoist, strap

They say a picture is worth a 1000 words. If so, then let this thread begin a new trend.

I think there should be a section for "How NOT to...", do something. There seem to be quite few opinions about the right way to do various procedures on your F-car. But I have yet to see a thread that specifically addresses what NOT to do.

If it's true that, "those who fail to learn from their mistakes are doomed to repeat them". Then it makes sense to publish what can go wrong as well as what goes right. In fact, publishing what can go wrong, might in the end, prove more valuable!

I have a lot of pictures to share, as I had a number of difficulties thoughout the day. But let me start with this one, to describe what happens when you do not plan properly.

Rule #1: Don't try this (at least for the 1st time) by yourself. Try to find someone, preferably with experienc to assist you.

Rule #2: When you have a plan, and change it. Make certain that you review ALL of the steps you need to accomplish before you begin with the new plan.

I failed on both counts. No need to explain #1. But #2 occured when I found that my hoist was shorter than I had hoped, and decided to pull the engine by rotating forward instead of backward.

The first plan did not (I belive) require me to remove the carburetors as they would have been facing the rear of the engine compartment. When I changed my approach, I neglected to consider the positioning of the carbs when tilting the engine forward.

Since the engine is now out of place, it will not rotate back down the way it was originally. At least not very easily. So I am stuck trying to remove the carbs and/or the intake maniforlds from this difficult position.

I had some other interesting steps along the way, and I'll post them sometime tomorrow. In the meantime I'm going to bed. It's been a VERY LONG day....
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I'm hoping that if I succeed in pulling the carbs and intake manifod off, I'll gain the inch-and-a-half or so needed to move the engine forward to clear the latch.

I have a couple of nuts on the front of the manifold to undo. So I'll have to drop the engine back down a bit. But, it IS much easier to remove the nuts on the inside of the intake maniforld from "this" position, than it is with the engine sitting in the car properly.

However, I do not reccommend this proceedure <cheeky grin> as a way to remove the intake!

smg2,

Yes. I had to remove the motor mounts too. (See pics) I did that after realizing that I would not be able to clear the rear lip with them on. It took awhile, and I had tdo remove the studs with the brackets in-place, as there was not enough room to get them out past the end of the studs.
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I didn't realize that that spacer comes off, or else I would have taken it off when I first removed the mounts.

Hidsight REALLY IS: 20/20.

Hopefully going forward, this thread can provide that kind of sight for the next PDB, who tries to do this (LOL!!!) on his own.

..Gotta keep that sense of humor.

 

Success!
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....but not without some problems and some damage too, unfortunately.

I took the intake manfolds off and after a lot of back-and-forth, it finally came out with the timing-belt side pointed up, at about 45-degrees.

Rule #4: If you don't have someone to help you, see Rule #1.

The picture below show's what can VERY EASILY happen if you don't follow Rule #1.

If you cannot follow Rule #1, skip to Rule #4 and repeat until you are able to follow Rule #1.

Luckily the window is just cracked and not broken all the way out. But still, it really hurt to have that happen. So PLEASE follow Rule #1. I could have avoided that, if I'd had another pair of eyes. I may also have been able to avoid the damage to the roof-lip, with some help. So once again: Unless you have a lot of experience in removing the engine, (and probably even if you do) Follow Rule #1.

Have I said that enough yet?

Okay,

So it does come out pulling the rear bank and tilting forward. But I wouldn't try it that way again. Without taking the front timing cover off, I don't think there is nearly enough room to for the differential to fit past the deck-latch. It's just way too close. And that would be especially true, if you use a protective backing like Gerritt did, to protect the rear window. Which I did not do, and should have done, and I VERY STRONGLY urge YOU to do, if you plan to pull the engine from a GT4.

I'm sure there is enough room on a GTB/S, (as others (including the factory) have done/and do) to pull it the way I did. But I couldn't find anything except the rearward rotation for the GT4. So I think this approach may be new for the GT4.

And I DO NOT reccommend it.

Rule #5: Follow conventional wisdom. Pull from the front and rotate rearward.

Like Aaron said, 'the enemy of "good" is "better"'. (BTW: I really like that quote!)

However I did say, "this is The 'How NOT to pull the engine from a GT4!' thread".

So it's all "good", and hopfully, my loss will be your gain, and (again hopefully) you will do "better" than I did.

By-the-way, I spent almost 2hrs today and about 3 or 4 last night. So it took about 5hrs. I also spent an additional 3-4 hours during this past week, disconnecting the A/C, headers, oil cooler and misc., stuff.

So that's a total about 8hrs done entirely by myself. I'm not a "beginner' (a bit of a hack maybe, <sly grin>) but a lot of time was spent learning how to work with very very close tolerances. It's tedious and I have a new found respect for Ferrari mechanics.

You guys may charge a lot. But now I see that you're probably worth it!

So....

Rule #6: Treat your mechanic well, and don't begrudge what he charges.
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smg2,

Please post pics of your re-install if you can.

I have a load leveler too, but it took-up about 8", that I figured I'd need to clear the rear deck. So I opted to do it without it. But there were several times when I'm certain it would have been ice to have had it attached.

However, I may attach it when I initially lift the engine for the re-install and measure the clearance against the floor. Then compare that to the top of the trunk. If I have enough room, I'll use it.

In the meantime, I'm going to have some fun cleaning, detailing and fixing the syncro that started this whole adventure!

 

Paul,

Thank you very much!

I don't feel too bad actually. In fact, I'm pretty happy that I "did" manage to get it out. And there were a few moments where I seriously "wondered" too.

Like right after I heard the window crack! LOL!!! <sigh>

But nothing is broken beyond repair, except the window. And I understand that you can no longer get the rear window for a GT4. So I'll probably have to have a new one fabricated. I built a large sound studio/screening room in my home a few years ago, that had a special window made for my audio booth. So I'll probably check with the glass company that made my booth window and see what they can do.

I started this post knowing it would be difficult. And I suspected that I'd run into some trouble. I just didn't think it'd be so much.

FChat has been very very helpful to me, and I felt this would be an opportunity to give something back, to other do-it-yourself adventurers like me.

I doubt many mechanics will willingly admit to having had problems like I had. And doubtless, few professionals will have had them, since they tend to have good equipement and do this kind of work regularly.

But, reading about how something works, when it works "right" is great. And even greater, if it works the way it is stated. But often times, it does not. And few people (and fewer mechanics for obvious reasons) are willing to post those errors. And it is those errors that teach you VERY DRAMATICALLY, why something is done a particular way.

So I think there's value in that. And I won't soon forget the lessons I've learned either!

 

PM'd Newman to ask about advice on where to get the syncro's (which he graciously gave) and he added another bit of advice on pulling the engine.

Something I hadn't thought of. Don't know why, because it's so obvious!

And to which I calmly (NOT) replied,

 

Here's why I did what I did...
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Not such a good angle. Of course pulling from the side would have solved the problem.

But I had to be different.

So... Not to be outdone, I decided to try it on the rear bank instead.

I should have put the hooks on the ends and wrapped twice. And had I actually tried to pull it like this I would have, since this type of setup could never work. But after looking at this I decided to try something I had seem someone else do with a chain.
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And I came up with this...

(notice the addition of the silent block bracket)
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I added straps around the differential housing as in the 1st picture below, and then started to pull.

Immediatly the engine went THUMP and I heard two somethings roll around on the ground. They turned out to be bushings.

Not sure where they came from yet. Or where they go back in. But I'll look on the diagrams, and I'm sure I'll figure it out...
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With a little push with a jack from the bottom, I got it to here.

But then found that the transfer case cover would not clear the frame.

So I removed it, and after another bit of rotation and another look, realized that the two studs on the end would also need to be pulled to make room to rotate the engine.
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Then the rear motor mounts came off. I should have taken the little spacers off first too. But I did not. And after it came up a bit more, I had great difficulty getting them out, because I had to pull the studs (as mentioned earlier) with the spacers still in-place. There wasn't even enough room to get the nuts off of the bolts, by that point!


and I had it rotated as for back in place as I could get too, as you can see from the slack in the differential strap in the last picture.
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So I rewired it!
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Perhaps you can imagine how painful it was to take all of these pictures, knowing I would be publishing my blunders!

LOL!!!

S'okay. If you learn from this, it was worth it!

Here's pulling the bracket with no clearance.
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