Lastest update on current events in F1: From Autosport this morning . . . McLaren have been summoned to appear before an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council later this month to answer charges relating to Formula One's ongoing spy controversy surrounding their chief designer Mike Coughlan. Following an investigation into the matter by the sport's governing body, the FIA wants McLaren to answer charges that they have breached Article 151C of the International Sporting Code. The hearing will take place on July 26. This relates to: "Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to the interests of any competition or to the interests of motor sport generally." A statement issued by the FIA on Thursday said: "The team representatives have been called to answer a charge that between March and July 2007, in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes had unauthorised possession of documents and confidential information belonging to Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro, including information that could be used to design, engineer, build, check, test, develop and/or run a 2007 Ferrari Formula One car." Coughlan was found to have in his possession a 780-page document of classified technical information from Ferrari. It is not clear how the dossier got into his hands, but McLaren have insisted several times that they have not acted incorrectly, and said they were confident the FIA would exonerate them. Team boss Ron Dennis said at last weekend's British Grand Prix: "We have never to my knowledge, and certainly over the past few months over this period, ever used other people's intellectual property. "It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm that either now or in the future, and that is the key message."
The issue is not whether anything in the stolen documents is or was on the McL car. The issue is whether McL had documents on another team and hurt the sport. The documents contained SF racing strategy. It's like having the opposing team's playbook before an American football game...and the opposing team doesn't know you have it. That gives McL a huge competitive advantage.
Given these amounts of documents were in MCL hands I cant see how they wont lose points or their drivers losing points. I think this hearing does not bode well for Mac.
If the FIA only looks for the posession of information and not for the information to actually being used on the cars, then I also think McLaren is in trouble. It depends if the FIA thinks that McLaren's chief designer having the information is reason enough or that more people have to be involved (like the MD?) So basically they look at the same issue as the one that Spyker brought forward about Super Aguri?
Whatever they read stole got advantage from isnt helping now there in a no win situ As a Fast moving sport the info is already outdated and now if they do it of there own back there will have a cloud hanging over it. such a shame as its been great racing from the drivers..
Maclaren is in trouble. I cant see any ruling coming out in their favour. Doesnt matter who had the info.....he is an employee of that team and a higher ranking one at that. I believe that Ron Dennis knew of the info and kept it at a distance and let the team use it thinking he might be less guilty if it was found out. As was said before this really explains whey the Macs got so fast so quickly after years of ineptness compared to S.F. Kraftwerk....speak english please. lol
PhilNotHill, you are right on the money... ...the Damage is done, and McLaren can only come forward to say that "only" CHIEF DESIGNER coughlan saw those documents, and that they havent used a thing? ...I´ll have to admit the situation looks really bad for McLaren...if they keep it plain and simple as the sporting code rules it, they broke it without a doubt. I cant be sure about the punishment...but I can see a points loss from McLaren in the constructors championship will be fair... Does anybody know for sure what the info was about?...I´m getting an idea of that material being about race strategy, or reliability quality assurance or something like that so RD could state "is not in our cars"... Maybe something about the methods instead of bare technical blueprints?
This is what they had...secret development plans and race strategy. http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/5031/787/
...oh my...no matter what we do...McLaren will be breathing on our neck for at least the rest of the year...or even next decade? ...excelent link.Im sad now...future developments are what hurts me most...Future Research and development is the worst!
Analysis: spy saga intrigue deepens By Jonathan Noble Thursday, July 12th 2007, 15:38 GMT When McLaren boss Ron Dennis fought back the tears at Silverstone last week to insist his team had done nothing wrong in Formula One's spy scandal, his emotions said more than any words about his lack of involvement and knowledge in chief designer Mike Coughlan's actions. But few could have predicted the twists and turns that the story would take over the following seven days - as fresh revelations emerged before finally today McLaren were summoned by the FIA to answer charges on the matter. Dennis' innocence appeared to point towards the matter being more a case of an employee acting in isolation, than a deliberate attempt to deceive. That theory gained ground when it emerged that Coughlan and ex-Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney had been involved in a job hunting interview at Honda - and it was suggested that the documents were more to do with future employment prospects than helping McLaren. But within 48 hours of the Honda situation becoming public, Stepney denied passing on the 780-page technical document at the centre of the scandal to Coughlan. In court this week, where Coughlan made his first public appearance since the controversy came to light, it was officially confirmed that the scandal blew up after a photocopying shop tipped off Ferrari that the McLaren employee's wife had tried to copy the confidential documents. Furthermore, the case widened McLaren's involvement beyond just Coughlan when Ferrari said it was aware the team's managing director Jonathan Neale knew that his member of staff had the documents. However, Ferrari could not nail down when and how Neale had found out. Then on Thursday morning the FIA announced that following its investigation into the matter it was summoning McLaren to an extraordinary meeting of the FIA World Motor Sport Council to answer charges of 'fraudulent conduct' on the matter. That news in itself was big enough, but perhaps more significant was the fact that the FIA said they had reason to believe McLaren had 'unauthorised possession' of the Ferrari documents from March - rather than the April date that has been bandied about up until now. In fact, McLaren's own press release when they initially announced that Coughlan was suspended said: "The team has learnt that this individual had personally received a package of technical information from a Ferrari employee at the end of April." Coughlan has kept silent on the matter, although he has provided Ferrari with an affidavit explaining when and how he came to have their documents in his possession. So why the date change? Ferrari are understood to have asked the court for permission to hand over that affidavit to the FIA as part of their investigation into the matter. The contents of Coughlan's 'confession' are unknown, but perhaps in there it has become clear that Coughlan has had the documents even longer than was initially stated by McLaren. And should it be proved that he had knowledge of the Ferrari F2007, including what the FIA has said is: "information that could be used to design, engineer, build, check, test, develop and/or run a 2007 Ferrari Formula One car', then that could have very important implications on the case. It was at the season-opening Australian Grand Prix in March that McLaren famously asked for a rule clarification about the moveable floor on the Ferrari - and in doing so forced a rule change from the FIA who subsequently toughened up its floor tests. The moveable floor controversy was widely believed to have hindered Ferrari in their fight against McLaren. The FIA will no doubt look carefully at the exact dates when Coughlan had the data, and whether any of his actions can be ruled to have influenced the team in that time frame. Dennis said several times at Silverstone that he was convinced his team had done nothing wrong, and that time would prove they were completely innocent. He also said that his team had informed the FIA of car developments both after April 28 and the few months before then. "Part of the information that we have made available to the FIA is all the details of all the developments in our cars in not only the period following the end of April but also the preceding months and all the drawings are available of those developments," he said. "None of those drawings and developments have any trace of a competitor's intellectual property. Clearly if an individual has access to information that information is in that person. Then you have to determine for what purpose it is going to be used. I can tell you that the purpose for which it was not used was to have any influence on our Grand Prix cars. Our system is a matrix system which means that the technical work we do is not a pyramid structure with one individual at the top, it is a flat structure. "The development of our cars are very much controlled, from an R&D point of view, by Paddy Lowe and each discipline is under the control of one individual. Therefore it is extremely easy to track back the influence of any one individual on the development of our racing cars. Everything has a name against it. "Therefore, I can categorically state that there are no developments, whatsoever, that have occurred in the months preceding 28th April or the months following 28th April and we can categorically demonstrate that to anybody who needs to have that information and of course that is the FIA. So that is what I can comfortably say. This will not end in anything that causes McLaren embarrassment." Should he be proved wrong and the FIA do find McLaren guilty - even because of the actions of a single member of staff - then it is hard to predict what punishment will be laid down. The FIA International Sporting Code lists a scale of penalties for breach of the Article 151C that McLaren have been summoned to answer. They go from a reprimand, fines and time penalties, to exclusion, suspension and disqualification. And perhaps it is significant that the latter three most serious penalties can only be handed down only if the party in question has been: "summoned to give them the opportunity of presenting their defence." End of Article Why would Coughlan's wife be making copies? This really smells. Had secret data since March or earlier? Stolen documents were used to base the moveable floor complaints against SF before the first GP? Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
McLaren disappointed by FIA decision By Jonathan Noble Thursday, July 12th 2007, 16:27 GMT McLaren have expressed their disappointment at the FIA's decision to summon the team to answer charges of 'fraudulent conduct' over Formula One's spying controversy. The FIA announced on Thursday morning that it had called an extraordinary meeting of the World Motor Sport Council for July 26 to judge whether or not McLaren had done anything wrong. The matter revolves around chief designer Mike Coughlan having in his possession a 780-page document of technical information relating to the Ferrari F2007. In a statement issued by McLaren this evening, the team said: "McLaren is extremely disappointed to note that it has been asked by the FIA to answer a charge of being in possession of certain documents and confidential information belonging to Ferrari. "Whilst McLaren wishes to continue its full co-operation with any investigation into this matter, it does wish to make it very clear that the documents and confidential information were only in the possession of one currently suspended employee on an unauthorised basis and no element of it has been used in relation to McLaren's Formula One cars." End of Article I guess we're just supposed to take McL's word for it that they did nothing wrong. Lots of questions that need to be answered. I wonder if the shoe were on the other foot how Mcl would feel?
Extremely sorry old chap I will try just for you..lol To many assumptions I believe the Mclaren would be where it is today without that information. If they have gained anything it will be there game plans for that period just my take on it flame away..
I'm disappointed that McL had SF secret documents. Will the moving floor issue that Ron Dennis made such a big deal about before Australia come back to haunt him? Couldn't happen to a nicer guy. Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.
...the thing is that now they have come to know the way in wich Ferrari "thinks"...that is the worst, the future plans were the most valuable, where are the new technologies being invested, who´s researching what to achieve this or that, how to make incredibly reliable quality checks, quality controled processes ... the Ferrari "Know-How" is worth millions...or how can you explain McLaren having a reliable and fast car...after what we all saw last year?
Yep its a fair point. I still maintain they must have made leaps in the car prior to getting this info though. How did the ferrari suddenly get reliable in the past its all cloak and dagger till someone gets caught. Bear in mind that it goes on all the time designers engineers moving around and taking there "how that team thinks" with them it may have gone unnoticed ,only they got caught with there pants down in the copying shop !!
That it would be "caught with their panties down" as it was Coughlan's wife who was making the copies.
Not quite right IMCO - It would be "caught with their knickers down" as we're talking about a shop in England here
so...Coughlan surrendered...he´ll be out of McLaren forever, so he´s got nothing to loose... ...Ferrari made that agreement, not charging him in exchange of his affidavit...and paying the lawyers fee... and with that in hand, went to the FIA, made the official complaint and NOW McLaren has been called to answer... FIA hard penalties (DQ, race bann or loss of points) are only given to those who are called upon answering for charges...
I dont remember Ferrari moving that fast ever. In 1996 when they picked up the best driver in F1, it still took them 2 to 3 years to be on a level with the Macs. The Macs here made their leap overnight. If you look back to the practice sessions in the winter, Ferrari was way ahead of the Macs. The fact that they have future plans of Ferrari is horrible and Maclaren should suffer the harshest penalty that the courts and the FIA can hand out. This all of course if they are guilty. And if the shoe were on the other foot.....Ron would be having a field day with it. Panties or knickers...I wonder which ones Ron will be wearing when he takes it up the hoop....lol
"It is not on our car. I am sure the FIA will confirm that either now or in the future, and that is the key message," says Ron Dennis. Somehow, I get the feeling, that it's not going to be Ron Dennis, who's going to be making the call on what the "key message is."
I can see McLaren not doing anything with engineering documents, not insofar as actually employing them in their designs... I can see them being all over those strategy documents like white on rice.
All this came about only because the employee at the photocopy shop was a Ferrari fan and became suspicious when he noticed that the documents were important. Also the Italian press reported that if Jonathan Neale, the team 's Managing Director and the Chief Designer Mike Coughlan were aware of the documents, it is impossible for RD to be in the dark ( this is the top hierarchy).
all this proves you should never trust a women with a simple copy job, other "jobs" are fine but leave the espionage to the men please I am so hoping McL are banned for the year, and RD has to wear sneakers instead of the Pradas
Frankly, I think they would be pouring over all of the docs intensely, not necessarily employing the exact F-car designs on the McLaren cars, but finding out Ferrari's secret whats and whys and then determining if there was applicable benefit for cross development of similar ideas, on their cars. I have to believe, that Vegas wouldn't pay very well on a bet, if you placed it today, saying that RD knew all about the documents, before the news came out. If they'd bet against it at all !!
