(from autosport) Behind-the-scenes efforts by teams to make Formula One engine performance more equal are set to be ramped up in the wake of Scuderia Toro Rosso's shock victory in the Italian Grand Prix, autosport.com has learned. Sebastian Vettel caused a major surprise when he became F1's youngest ever winner at Monza, with a performance that highlighted the differences between his Ferrari-powered STR3 and the Renault-powered car of sister team Red Bull Racing. The result has provided further evidence to those who believe that there is now a genuine performance gap between different engines on the grid. A number of manufacturers - especially Renault have already spoken out in claiming that they have lost out by not developing their power-unit under F1's current engine freeze. Although making improvements to the engines is not allowed, manufacturers can change parts as the FIA's discretion if it reduces costs or improves reliability. Such revisions can also have the added benefit of lifting performance. Further steps forward can be made from improved fuel and lubricants, and the airbox and exhaust design. Sources have told autosport.com that a number of teams are so unhappy with the situation which could leave them down on power until 2013 if the rules do not change that they are now lobbying the FIA behind the scenes to try and level the playing field for next year. "We just want to make things more equal between all the engines on the grid as they were when the freeze first came in," said one source. "A number of teams share our feelings, and discussions are taking place with the FIA about resolving the situation." It is understood that Fernando Alonso's decision about whether or not to stay at Renault next year will be influenced by if the French car manufacturer can address the engine situation to improve their performance. Renault boss Flavio Briatore told Spanish newspaper AS at the weekend that the improvements made by Ferrari, Mercedes-Benz and BMW was being discussed by teams. "We have discussed with the other teams to find a solution," he said. "The mechanical side was frozen and three teams took advantage of their reliability problems to move forward. I have met with Max Mosley a few times and by the end of the season all this might be solved." Red Bull Racing team principal Christian Horner said he was fully behind moves to equalize the engines claiming that it was inconceivable for the situation to continue unchanged with some manufacturers enjoying what could be as much as a 30bhp advantage. "Renault give us a very good service," Horner told autosport.com. "Last year we had a competitive engine and this year others appear to be ahead of us from our analysis. And obviously there is no bigger example than between the two Red Bull teams, so for us it is very important that Renault address it in the appropriate way. "I know that they understand where the issues are. The problem is they took the ruling of the freeze absolutely literally, and others took advantage more than they did. And Renault have paid the penalty for that. "The problem is, being stuck with that for five years is an untenable position for Renault or any other team that has that kind of disadvantage." Horner said that idea of an equality was not to free up development, as that would simply drive up costs, but just in ensuring that differences in engines were minimized. "The FIA has all the information," he said. "At the end of the day we need to keep costs down. We don't need an engine formula to completely open up, but there should be a parity as much as possible among the engine suppliers otherwise we will all end up with one engine at the end of the day." Horner felt the Monza result said more about the engine performance of the two Red Bull teams than their overall capabilities of the respective outfits. When asked if he felt Toro Rosso's win increased the pressure on Red Bull Racing to lift their game, Horner said: " It is a Red Bull win. We can see that Sebastian is a complete star of the future. "As teams we share information openly and have done for two and a half years now and the only difference in the package is the drivers and the engine."
The engine freeze was a dumb idea, specifically for this reason. It allows 10-year advantages to the manufacturer had the best engine at the time of the freeze.
The rule was a completely stupid idea, trying to stop spending in F1 is like trying to bail water from the Titanic. Not to mention all the time and money that is now going into the KERS development. Have a set of guidelines that the engines have to follow ex: displacement and number of cylinders and let the teams have at it.
I bet RBR wouldn't be complaining if it was the other way around. Basically they are saying that the RBR and TR cars are the same safe for the engine. If I'm not mistaken that's not allowed by the rules. FIA should have a look into that. If the rules allow room for improvement (fuel, lubricants, exhaust) then cudos to those who can still extract 30 HP more than the others. A solution could be to ask Mercedes and BMW to supply other teams with their engines. I bet Honda would want one of those!
thsi whole engine freeze thing is all nonsense, waste of time, and waste of money. they should let teams continue to develop the engines. back in 2004-2005, the engines were almost 900 plus HPs. now, it's slower, hardly any overtaking. what has the FIA achieved in all this?
I've been wondering about that for a while. If all engines are limited to 19.000 RPM, how is het possible to overtake on a straight without stepping over that RPM limit?
What a bunch of cry babies. I thought these guys were racers? Crying about 30hp ?? Figure out how the hell they did it and don't sit around and say everyone needs the same power. Maybe F1 should be a total spec series with 1 chassis supplier and 1 engine supplier?? Hell we're half way there with the tires, rev limits and ecu's. Maybe that will shut the cry babies up. If the FIA does anything to kill/stifle the engine development to level the playing field more than it already has I will be sooo done with F1. And I'm sure I won't be alone. GP2 will be more fun to watch.
Massa, if i'm not wrong was quoted saying at the start of the 2006 season :'The cars are slightly easier to drive now. we take corners faster than the old V10s. but i think there will be some problems in overtaking..'
They should completely get rid of the engine freeze rule. It was the dumbest rule to begin with and really didnt help any of teams in terms of cost. If anything I am sure they are spendiing more money on finding loop holes around the rule. The real problem is in the aero package and tires, which they are already doing something about it. With the aero package today you could have as much HP as you want and will still have a hard time overtaking. Renault is just *****ing that a private team kick their butts and they can't handle that.
I agree with you guys - the engine freeze is one of the dumbest ideas ever to enter into F1. I was at Monza, and let me tell you, what a GIANT PAIN IN THE AZZ it is to attend an F1 race. You fly for the better part of a day. Rent a car. Book a hotel. Then you trek there for practice - get caught in a 1.5 hour traffic jam. Then you pay $20 to park, then you walk 45 minutes to the track to watch the cars "test", which pretty much consists of a lap here and there. Then you walk 45 minutes out of the track (takes 30 minutes at a good walking pace just to get from your seats back to the front gate - then you need to get to your car), get caught in another 1.5 hours of traffic on your 30 minute drive back to the hotel. Then you do that again the next day, except it's busier. Then you do it again on the race day, but it's busier still! You sit crammed in like sardines on a stand and watch the cars zip by for a while. And then you spend about 3 hours getting back to your hotel (which is a 30 minute drive away) as you see dark tinted windowed BMW's, Benz's and buses with team logos whisking the team grunts away, as helicopters zip overhead ferrying the elite drivers, team owners and F1 VIP's away. You go to all that hassle just to watch the race. Well let me tell you, you damn well want to see a flucking RACE! And when your favorite driver backs off and settles into cruise control because the rules made it so his engine has to last a long time, or you watch your driver in go-slow mode to save fuel or to conserve his tires, you think "why did I bother to come here, again?". The teams should be free to RACE. The fact that Hamiton or Massa or Button or Webber or Alonso or any of these guys would be purposely putting in less than a full effort for the simple reason that they are already starting to fight the NEXT race (while still, supposedly, contesting this one) is, to me, ludicrous. The fact that the drivers are trained not to do anything that may be considered ungainly or ungentlemanly whilst they attempt to (god forbid) *WIN* is ludicrous as well. They have reams of absurd rules to follow. Ironically, all it has done is make F1 MORE expensive and LESS exciting to watch. If they want to make it more exciting, all they need to do is to come up with some sort of time-delayed push-to-pass type thing. Then passes will be happenning all the time. And either come up with a spec body like NASCAR (if they want to make it a spec series, as they seem to want to do), or just get rid of any aero protrusions beyond a front and rear wing. It's ironic that the FIA keeps saying they want to enhance the spectacle, and we ALL know that passing is what they want, and we ALL know that passing is so hard because once you get behind someone, it screws up your aero and makes it hard to pass, yet the ONE area the FIA hasn't addressed IS FRICKIN AERO! They yittle on about tires and engines and electronics and everything else that has nothing to do with passing ability. And their meddling funnels a majority of the teams effort into aero - which is the one freakin' thing that makes passing harder! I swear the FIA couldn't make worse decisions if they tried.
hohoho! I always thought watching an F1 race at the track would be worse than watching it on TV, but everyone told me otherwise. Anyway Mike they're addressing Aero next year so lets hope for the best.
wow this cracks me up...a few teams read the rules in advance and figured out ways to 'optimize' their position. Design engines on the limit at the freeze then work to improve reliability during the freeze. Renault didn't do this apparently and they're crying for a rule change because they didn't perform? wow. This sounds like the investment houses crying for billions in cash because they threw risk management to the wind and went for the home run in real estate. Sometimes you're the bug, sometimes your the windshield Anguruso - there's nothing like an F1 race in person. Forget the parade...the sights, the sounds, fantastico! Indy does it right, I had ZERO traffic problems in 4 races. Tickets on the street at face value, parked 2 min. walk from the gate for free, quick trip to hotel after race.
Looks like that arse Max is really pushing for what amounts to a spec formula. Max seems to be in favor of cutting costs at the expensive of viewership. It's not looking good folks. from f1-live http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/080918111100.shtml
