birddog's mondial | FerrariChat

birddog's mondial

Discussion in 'Mondial' started by JoeZaff, Apr 13, 2010.

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  1. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    Aug 5, 2007
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    #1 JoeZaff, Apr 13, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2010
    Before I begin, I need everyone to know I don't know Birddog, except from occasional exchanges on f-chat, and I obviously have no financial interest in the car. However, I am someone who has spent a lot of time studying these cars. Believe it or not, to me the Mondial is an almost perfect. I purchased a beautiful mondial and have spent the last couple of years simultaneously driving the wheels off her while at the same time conducting a no expense spared restoration to as new condition (something akin to trying to row upstream without a paddle). Coming from that place, I have to take a moment to just express my absolute admiration for Birddog's mondial.

    Have any of you guys checked out his new webpage.

    http://www.ferrarimondialforsale.com

    Holy crap. I just spent a fricken 1/2 hour looking at this thing. I am so bummed. I thought my Mondial was exceptional, but this car is just completely off the chain. This car has to be the gold standard for Mondials everywhere. Everything is just perfect. I have a ton of period photos of the Mondial, and this car is simply indistinguishable.

    Moreover, this car won the 2009 Coppa GT--this is like winning the gold medal in the Ferrari olympics. I just cannot believe a mondial won this award.

    Anyone who really loves these cars should check out his webpage. For those of us interested in the preservation of the ever dwindling supply of exceptional examples, this car sets the standard we should be trying to reach.

    My hats off to Birddog. He really accomplished something astonishing with that car.
     
  2. Michael B

    Michael B F1 Rookie
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    Apr 28, 2004
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    Fantastic effort. Well done.
     
  3. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

    Jan 31, 2004
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    Curtain call for Birddog !!

    Beautiful presentation of a gorgeous Mondial !!

    Good on ya !!

    Hank
     
  4. GrayTA

    GrayTA F1 World Champ
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    Jun 25, 2006
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    Very nice!!!


    PDG
     
  5. jgoodman

    jgoodman F1 Rookie
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    Aug 29, 2009
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    Wow! Great looking Mondi! Too bad my wife doesn't want one also......:)
     
  6. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

    May 13, 2006
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    Nice car but way too optimistic on the price, especially when its a year away from needing a service.
     
  7. ace_pilot

    ace_pilot Formula Junior

    Sep 6, 2007
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    +1

    But good luck anyway!

    Ace
     
  8. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    #8 JoeZaff, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
    I couldn't disagree more...and this is how I know. I have been wrestling with buying another Mondial, just so I could have this car. Its actually killing me that this car is going to go to somebody else. If I saw this car a year ago, I would have given him 50G for it, sight unseen, and it would have been a bargain. Turning a great f-car to perfect f-car costs serious money... ask me how I know. I don't think you could buy an exceptional Mondial for say 35K and turn it into this for less than 15K.

    Its not a question of when the car needs service. What does a belt service cost on a car of this condition? 3G. Do some quick research, do you know how much a perfect dash panel costs--don't bother you can't buy one right now for any price? or a perfect set of fog lights--do you have a year to wait to find out? or a pristine interior (you think a belt service is expensive)? I spent $500.00 on a fricken OEM rubber gasket, and I just spent $120.00 on a 1 inch OEM black metal tab for my grab handle.

    You can't judge the market based on all the also rans out there. Find me another Coppa GT Ferrari Mondial to compare it to. I can't imagine the work that had to have gone into this car to achieve such a distinction. You could buy a $28K Mondial all day long--freshly serviced, and you will NEVER get it this nice, no matter how much you spend.

    There are discriminating buyers out there looking for something really special, sadly there are fewer and fewer in this section lately. Replaced by a preoccupation with price and cheap deals... its becoming as bad as the 360 section.


    I am willing to bet that this car is nicer than any other we will ever see...and that is worth a whole lot to someone with a real passion for the Mondial, and in particular the finest example of the breed. The guy who gets this car, has won the race before he even pulls up to the starting line
     
  9. hank sound

    hank sound F1 Veteran

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    I agree Joe..........matter of fact, the buyer is expected to pay more for a car of such high caliber. And if I were the buyer, I would want to be in charge of who is going to do my major.

    Birddog's car appears (and has been judged) to be a top tier car, and as such, I don't see the price being out of line.

    Cheers, Hank
     
  10. JAYF

    JAYF Formula 3

    May 13, 2006
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    At the end of the day the market will determine the price of the car- not your or my OPINION.
     
  11. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    #11 JoeZaff, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
    My point is that you can't judge the market by comparing this car to other mondials for sale on ebay or f-chat. If he puts this car in the hands of a proper F-car broker or markets it in the Ferrari market letter or other periodicals that target the proper audience, he will get his price. I know brokers who got more than his asking price for Mondials last year that simply do not compare to his. My opinion of what the car is worth is based not on some hypothetical about what a buyer would pay, but what I---his target buyer--would pay. From going to concours events and seeing other unbelievable Mondials--albeit not as nice as Birddog's and the money spent to get the cars in proper concours condition, I am quite certain there are other buyers just like me out there.
     
  12. db6

    db6 Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2010
    253
    Beautiful car, for sure!

    Oddly, I think BOTH sides (price is too high/price is not too high) are right! I've seen some 3.2 Mondials that have sold in the mid 20s that were pretty doggy. It would cost a lot more than $10K to get those in decent condition, and even after $10K, they wouldn't be anywhere near what this one is.

    So for someone who wants a really, really clean, nice and fully functional 3.2, this is probably a good value at mid $30s.

    But, on the other hand, "good value" doesn't always sell, esp. in this current crazy market. In this market, it seems like only low price is selling. (Many of us here are "value" buyers rather than "price" buyers, but we seem to be a dying breed in this market.)

    So from that perspective, you have an '86 Mondial with over 20K miles* on it, which the mkt these days seems to value at what, maybe $22K? $38K is a big leap from there, even though the car is of course extra clean.

    (*Also, in the crazy Ferrari world, it seems like the cars take a big price hit once they break 9999 miles, 19999 miles, 29999 miles, 39999 miles and 49999 miles. After 49999 miles, of course, they have value only as parts cars ;) )
     
  13. db6

    db6 Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2010
    253
    BTW, I hope you are right and I hope he gets his price!

    (Also, could you give me the names of the brokers you are referring to? Posting here, or PM, is fine).
     
  14. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    OK, this car isn't "extra clean" its a COPPA GT WINNER.

    The distance between extra extra extra clean and Coppa GT can be measured in miles.

    Maybe that is what is being lost here. For a mondial to win such an award on a national stage is astounding. I have never seen a Mondial...and I have seen a lot, that I couldn't find at least a few flaws in. I saw a 7K mile car at Algar last year that couldn't hold a candle to this car. The cars this Mondial had to have beaten to achieve this distinction boggles the mind.

    There are probably a handful of surviving Mondials that even compare to this car.
     
  15. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    PM sent
     
  16. birddog

    birddog Formula Junior

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    #16 birddog, Apr 15, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2010
    Thanks to everyone for all the nice comments about the car. I haven't made any claims as to it being "perfect" or "nicest Mondial I've ever seen" or anything like that, as I am simply factually representing the car for what it is to my fellow F-chat and FCA members. In addition, I don't proclaim to be a expert on the Ferrari "market", so comments like DB6's spur my interest:
    Although he's not subscribed and has no personal profile, anyone that has DB6 (one of the most beautiful Aston Martins ever) as their online name must have some knowledge and taste.

    So DB6, as you seem to be attuned to the market these days, I'd be interested in your thoughts on today's values for a top quality 308 and a top quality 328. These two models are more reliable benchmarks - as they were produced in much greater numbers and they do not suffer from the subjectivity that divides folks on the 2+2 cars. Please let us know what you think, as I don't proclaim to be an expert.
     
  17. db6

    db6 Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2010
    253
    With these cars and this market these days, it's hard to know.

    Top quality 328? The one that has been on eBay for a while that seems to be really nice and has super low miles has run through a bunch of auctions and seems to have topped out at "reserve not met" price of around $41K. I know one of the guys here sold his really nice black 328 for around $37K.

    The market just seems so soft these days. So my guess is it would be hard to top $50K on an actual sale for a really nice 328.

    308QV, maybe high 30s for a real nice one? That'd be a car asking low 40s, sells for high 30s.

    I see scaledetail's beautiful 3.2 Mondial coupe, that car would seem like a steal to me in the high 20s, but he started in the 30s, lowered the price fairly regularly, and now has it for "Buy it Now" on eBay for $25.9K. It's run a couple of complete auctions now, I don't think it has ever gotten higher than $19K. I thought $25K was a pretty aggressive price, and eBay gets a lot of eyeballs, so I thought it would go quickly, but it hasn't. (BTW, I think it is a great deal at his asking price! Someone will get a great car for unbelievably cheap).

    I think there are really different prices for the same car, a "price you can sell it at in the next month" and a "price you can get if you advertise it everywhere and are willing to wait for the right buyer."

    Also, truly exceptional cars can get truly exceptional prices, like Newman's 308 did, and your car hopefully will! Like I said, I think your car is a good value at your price. It only takes one buyer who (1) agrees, and (2) has the money.

    Your car is obviously fantastic, and your website presentation is, too. Good luck with the sale.
     
  18. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    You never made any representations and I apologize for heaping on the superlatives. No 2o+ year old car will ever be "perfect" but as someone who is trying to turn a local 90 pt car into a 95 pt car, I know what an incredible achievement winning the Coppa GT is. In sharing your webpage, I was hoping to open a discussion regarding that achievement with likeminded individuals who are devotees of the Mondial and are also trying to restore their cars to their best. I am a hardcore mondial addict, and for those like me, the fact that you turned our humble Mondial into a national winner of such a high order is something that I felt was worthy of acknowledgement, as well as the photos which illustrated its superb condition/restoration. Unfortunately, like every other thread on this board over the last few months, it took all of three or four posts to turn into a debate on asking prices, falling values and blah blah blah. Its like a virus that is slowly eating every discussion on this forum.


    I am sorry for bringing this kind of attention to your car.
     
  19. db6

    db6 Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2010
    253
    Does my estimate of an average sale price for an average 20K mile 86 Mondi cab seem too low? Remember, this is an estimate of an average actual sale price, for an "average" 86 on the market. I'd envision that "average" 86 being advertised realistically at high 20s, then actually selling in low 20s.
     
  20. db6

    db6 Formula Junior

    Jan 4, 2010
    253
    I agree. While I didn't start the prices, etc. discussion, I certainly participated in it. If that is not good form here, I apologize.

    Again, beautiful car and good luck.
     
  21. JoeZaff

    JoeZaff F1 Veteran
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    I wasn't referring to you, or anyone else in particular. I know everyone on this thread from the forum and I have nothing but respect for all of you. I am more bummed that every single thread on this forum seems to devolve into the same discussion.
     
  22. birddog

    birddog Formula Junior

    Jun 24, 2006
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    Joe - Please...you da man when it comes to Mondials.

    The only reason I ever presented any info on here, and half the reason I made the website was in the interest of promoting and preserving the Mondial - which has always been my goal with the car.

    Someday I hope more than one of us can take a Mondial 3.2 Cabriolet across the awards stage at Pebble Beach and say that it is a survivor of only 810...and it's still running strong and presenting beautifully.

    Forza Mondial!!!
     
  23. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    birddog's Mondial is stunning to say the least. It has to be the nicest Mondial in the world. It's also a desirable year - the '88 3.2 cab is probably the most sought-after of the pre-T mondials.

    I think there are f-car people out there that really appreciate an exquisit car - one that has the originality, and tidyness of a Coppa winner - because they themselves would like to go for the award and understand the cost and attention to detail to be successful at it. I would guess that birddog will easily get his price, though he may have to be patient for a few months for that particular person (Coppa aspirant) to come along with cash in hand. No doubt, the cost to put even a very nice mondial into that kind of shape would vastly exceed the asking price.

    My experience with many things (not just cars) is that if you happen to be the one who has the best-of-the-best, then you're pretty much in the driver's seat as to price and terms of sale.

    Good luck to birddog, but I doubt he'll need it!
     
  24. jgoodman

    jgoodman F1 Rookie
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    Mine being one of them ;)

    My purchase of my Mondial last summer was completely impulsive, and something I just had to do. And I'm so glad I did. The price last summer was a factor which made it possible for me to be so blessed as to get my foot in the F-door.

    One year later, my car isn't fully sorted out, and I probably have had to invest enough since then to get and keep her running, that if I didn't buy mine last summer, and I bought Birddog's Mondial this summer instead, I'd be ahead on many fronts, including probably total dollars spent, with this impressive car.

    I do think that for how great it looks and presents, to get the money that I know this car clearly deserves, you Birddog should just get the belts and tensioner bearings taken care of ahead of time.

    Then maybe, I can convince my wife how great she would look in red! :)
     
  25. birddog

    birddog Formula Junior

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