Hello F-chatters, Before I start a somewhat involved procedure I like to capture what I plan to do step-by-step. It helps me get my mindset right. So, I have attached a few documents. Pretty soon I plan to attack my shift shaft seals and pan gaskets. Plus I would like to try thread sealing washers (also sometimes referred to as stat-o-seals.) I have attached related documents I wrote. The shift alignment I have done before. The rest is new territory for me. I also stole material blindly from many other talented folks here. If I need to acknowledge it in some way I can but of course intend only to use these materials myself or maybe post updated versions of them here if by chance they might actually help someone else. Would welcome review, pointing out any obvious mistakes, warning where damage could be done, etc. Thanks in advance for any help. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Good write ups! Personally I would mark the position of the selector lever and shaft by making a center punch indentation which indents the shaft and the front side of the lever. Then there is a fighting chance of maybe getting the shaft installed without having to do any adjustment at all. Hylomar is somewhat old-fashioned these days I think. Loctite 518 or similar is an anaerobic sealant which does not set unless air is excluded so that any which squidges out into the sump does not solidify and get into the oil as solid particles. The procedure for adjusting the left/right position of the gear lever which is mentioned in the workshop manual is not to simply get it centered in the gate slot. I think its worth expanding on this because their procedure is really ingenious. The problem with simply adjusting the linkage so the lever appears to be centered in the gate slot is that you dont really know if the lever in the gearbox is in the center of the selector which it moves, at this point. So, the workshop manual says remove the gate, put the lever into second, then allow it to detent. Note this L/R detent is done by the gearshift not the gearbox. Then move the lever to the left until it stops and measure the travel (at this point the lever in the box has hit the side of the adjacent 1/reverse selector shaft). Then move the lever to the right until it stops and measure the travel (at this point the lever in the box has hit the side of the 3/4 shaft). Adjust until both the L and R travel are the same. That way the selector lever in the box must be exactly in the middle of the 2/3 selector shaft where it should be, when the gear lever is detented.
CONSIDER putting an O-Ring in the "x" od the quad-ring on thine INSIDE of the sump. It will prevent the fore-aft movement of the quad ring within the well which is substancial, alone. Put it on the INSIDE as it is NOT a sealing device but merely a STOP MOVEMENT AND WEAR, device.
Yep, that's already in the write up. I think I got that from one of your previous posts . Verell now includes O-rings along with the quad rings.
Oil pan removal was easy. Shift shaft itself tricky but out. Now, dumb question time. The o-ring is an exact replacement. The "quad" seems too big. Do you really mean putting the o-ring on the inside (aft) and the quad in front of it? Image Unavailable, Please Login
not off to a good start with my question... That's a photo of one half of Verrel's kit #105558Q for the seals for the shift shaft of an early (carb) 308. On the top is an o-ring that is a perfect duplicate of the rock hard original I pulled from my 78 308. On the bottom in the photo is what I think folks here refer to as a "quad-ring". It is ridged around its circumference and there is a ridge on the facing pieces. From my perspective I could just put the o-ring into the case and I believe I have replaced my shift shaft seal (at least one of them). But from posts here it seemed like some have suggested that for the older 308s this "quad-ring" should be placed in front of the o-ring, not so much for sealing, but rather for limiting lateral movement. So what I am trying to figure out is why this kit includes this "o-ring with ridges" when what I found in my stock car was just the normal o-ring. And, is this extra ridged o-ring really supposed to fit the 78 308 in some way -- it seems too big. And of course I suppose I could have emailed Verrel .
I just completed this job. Before I loosened and removed the shaft from the fork, I used a sharpie to mark a reference line on the end of the shift shaft. To provide enough space to remove the shaft from the sumps, since I pulled the main shaft forward into the cockpit, instead of adjusting the yoke in front of the oil pan, all measurements/placements of the shift box and shaft stayed the same throughout the project. When I reassembled, I lined up the shaft back in the fork according to the mark I made. While I went through the 2nd (or 3rd) gear adjustment procedure just as a measure of verification, I didn't need to make any adjustments once everything was reassembled. While I found this project time consuming, it wasn't technically difficult. The hardest aspect for me was reinstalled that &*%$ing dipstick connection. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Thats probably a good plan as early cars are different. Later ones did not have the O-ring, they have a "lip" type oil seal.
If the 0-ring is from my 105558Q kit, it's from an early kit. mwr4440 & others reported that that most seal grooves are not wide enough for the quad ring and the large o-ring in the early kits. The current kits use a #019 o-ring with a much smaller cross-section. Assuming you are working thru the swaged in washer, the quad ring goes in first and does the actual sealing. The quad ring fits against the hole's OD, and also against the bottom of the machined area. The o-ring fits between the quad ring and the swaged washer.The o-ring diameter is chosen so that it fits in the quad ring's side groove. The o-ring's only purpose is to hold the quad ring in place as the shaft moves axially, thus preventing the quad ring from being worn by movement against the housing. andyw, The newer seal is a solid rubber almost rectangular trapezoidal cross-section, not a lip type seal.
Great detailed explanation and I am focusing on these first two sentences which jibe with my car -- the seal groove is not wide enough for the quad ring and all I need to use is the large o-ring. Thanks.
Well maybe I am not describing it correctly but this is what mine looked like. Yes its not a lip seal in the normal sense, there is no compression ring around the lip. The replacement was identical. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yes Sir. Exactly. Thanx Verell. You said it better than my draft which I forgot to post and have now deleated.
Well, one boneheaded move. After installing the new bushing I recall thinking I needed to check the ID and then got distracted and didn't do it. Now with the shaft in the car it really is too snug a fit. If I keep going I would be leaving a real mess for someone in the future. So, I have two problems. One is what to do about the bushing, but I believe I have the right tool to get it in and out without having to take the shaft out again. The second problem is how to get the currently stuck bolt out. It's resisting pulling and prying. Maybe try to rig something to push it out from the opposite side? Other ideas? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Delrin. As far as the bolt goes I was able to get a punch on it and once I found the right angle pop and it's out. Not the big deal I thought it was going to be. (Which means maybe having to use unusual force to install it is not that big a deal if someone can get a punch on the end to drive it back out.)
Put a very little silicone, oil, WD-40, dish soap, etc., on the bolt and it will slide right in. The Delrin ever so slightly deforms and "grabs" the bolt and that can make it a real bear getting it in dry.
Thanks. Tried anti-seize first and it ain't going in unless I hammer it in. Is taking a drill to the bushing a bad idea? (To try and ever so slightly increase the inner diameter.)
Bump. Well if I can get a punch onto it to drive it out then my decision is to hammer it into place no matter what it takes. Seems better to have a proper tight fit than to f-up the bushing with a drill.
NO,NO,NO, just use the quad ring, it's the same width as the OEM o-ring, so should always fit. mwr440 is right, The delrin bushing's ID can produce a tight fit when the tolerences for the shift shaft hole, the bushing's OD, & ID all add up the wrong way. I suggest honing the ID out: Get a large cotter pin, or a split a round rod and slip a strip of fine (320 or 400) grit sandpaper into the slot. Then mount it into an electric drill and give give it a quick spin. Then check the bolt for fit, repeat as needed. Ideally you want the bolt to go in with some drag, but not require hammering. If you hammer the bolt in, you risk cracking the delrin bushing, or the shift shaft's bushing hole. Also I would think resistance while shifting would be very high.
