365 gtc/4 at Hertage Classics

Anyone have any dealings with them, or know anyting about the red '72 gtc/4 they have? Schmidt also has a similar one on eBay and Tonkin a pretty nice that's $70K or so, as well. thanx for the info. steve meltzer

 

Steve - I looked at this car about a year ago in search for a C4. It´s clean and straight, bodywork excellent, interior good but seat covers tatty. Not the best I´ve ever seen but certainly not the worst.
What really turned me off was the stories I got about the car´s history in talking to these folks over the phone. When I went to have alook, the stories all changed. I won´t do business with folks that tell you one thing to get you in the door and then the truth comes out. The car has virtually no service history..... so what you see is what you get.

 

I was at the Tonkin showroom a couple of months ago looking at the 612, and I spent some time looking over the C/4 as well (just casually-- at one time I considered buying one but I think for now I am over that).

It looked very, very clean. I couldn't find anything wrong with it, although I am not a big fan of red C/4s. Please note that I am not an expert or anything, and I only looked at it for a few minutes.

 

I'm considering a GTC/4, as I like the looks of the, tho' many don't share that opinion. It's also big and hard to work on...read: expensive. thanx for the info. steve

 

365gtc/4

I bought my first Ferrari, the C4 on consignment in Emeryville CA. It was a bit rough, and I paid a corresponding price for it. Observation since purchase in 2000 – prices seem to be going up across the board for all Ferrari’s.

I have since put in new rings, valve guides, valves, timing chain… also new synchors, and a new 1st/2nd gear slider ring.

I saw my first C4 in 1973, parked at an A&W in Palo Alto. I was 17, very into cars and familiar with the, 275 GTB, the Dino, Daytona, and all the Lamborghini’s but had never seen this model before – I liked it. The C4 was a car that transitioned between the rounded lines of “pinnin” and the more sophisticated angular features of Bertone or Giugiaro (Ghibli).

My opinion - there are few perspectives from which the car is OK, but there are many more where the car is absolutely gorgeous. After 4 years I still go out the garage with my coffee on weekend morning just to admire -

Biggest concerns; Maintenance - for those who are not financially independent with a trusted mechanic or not “into” the mechanics and working on all the neat machinery.

(This is the first Ferrari I have ever owned, so I really do not have a good “cross Ferrari” comparative reference. My perspective is that of an accomplished mechanic who has the time to think things through before picking up a wrench and my comparative reference is to BMW and Jaguar)

Bottom line – the C4 has lots of parts and many common maintenance tasks are buried fairly deep behind other gadgets that take time to remove. If you need to pay an hourly rate to have it serviced, this car will eat you alive – I have heard $5k + a year normal maintenance and that is probably true as long as nothing big/bad happens. I have heard that shopping out an engine overhaul can cost $20K.

Some other examples -

Changing/removing Air filters (With out destroying the elements) 20-40 minutes out 20- 40 minutes to put back.
12 somewhat hard to reach/see nuts with washers
12 Nuts and bolts, bolt heads hard to reach, nylock nuts turned 1/6 of a turn at a time
With an end wrench, one nut needs a crow’s foot.
All the velocity stacks come out and the elements come out with the air boxes.

Every 10,000 miles – valve adjustment – requires removal of carburetors and all associated linkages, ignition wires need to be unplugged and moved out of the way, the valve cover end caps (two of which have distributors attached to them) and associated screws need to be removed…there are a ton of nuts and washers, and if you need to adjust the cam timing, a crows foot on a long extension is required to loosen the nut for the dip stick sleeve. This job takes me more than a day plus any time spent for ordering shims that I did not have.

For me to change the clutch – I start with removal of the differential and torque tube as a unit, followed by the transmission – the transmission is big and heavy, not like a Munci that you just drop on your chest and roll out with on your creeper - a good 8 hours, more when friends stop by to help.

Also, many of the nuts on the axels, and in the transmission are actually Ferrules – which require a special socket – I have made about 5 of these things by cutting up standard sockets – and you must pay attention to the direction of the threads – many are left hand.

I have not had a lot of problems with parts, although as time goes on, they seem to be more difficult to find. I paid $120 for two air cleaner elements – I think they are up to $125 each at this point.

There are a many items, and I assume this is across the board for older Ferraris, that you will pay through the nose for from Ferrari – but if cross referenced, are well within more normal ranges.
- Constant velocity joints – same as BMW 6 – 7 series
- AC system – York compressor, Parker receiver dryer
- Wheel bearing – go to a bearing house and pay $50 each
- …….


Having said the above – I love this car and driving it is like a vacation from normal life. The components are strong, and well made. The car was designed to handle stress far above the 70MPH driving we normally do. In 110-degree heat, I can blast up the hill to Auburn at 100 MPH, the AC running full tilt, and the temp sits at 190F.

I put a set of AVS 235/60 15s on the stock Daytona stars. The cornering is incredible, far better than XWX tires – but it does put an already low ground clearance car another ½ inch lower to the ground. It has been said, and even published that cars with older suspension could not handle the g forces of the new tire technology – Regarding the C4, that is absolute crap! This car would be wild with 17 inch rims and new tech tires.

With 8.8 : 1 compression, and 35 degrees full advance at 3300 RPM - I run regular gas. If and when I up the compression above 9, I’ll think about running a higher octane but with 8.8 : 1 and a normal ignition advance, regular is fine.

Using a Gtech – I did a single 0-60 run in 6.4 seconds. However, acceleration from zero is not the car’s strong point. It is much better above 60 MPH where the aero dynamics come into play. You can really feel the power come on at 4000 RPM, that is also where the exhaust starts to scream – especially fun in a tunnel. The car easily hits 140 – but I have yet to top it out, all in all pretty damn good for a 32-year-old vehicle.
I drive the car at least once a week and have been averaging about 5000 miles a year. It is easy to drive, starts quickly, but warms up slowly and the shifting should not be rushed when the transmission is cold.

About the shifting – it has ring/Porsche style synchros – My experience is that you either shift them slowly or you shift hard and fast, but only hard and fast with a warm gear box.

The car is comfortable, the seats are pretty good – could use a little more lumbar support. My heater works great, and the defroster is adequate, if you need help on a humid day, the AC compressor can be turn of and the blower can be used to defog the windows. On a hot day in the sun, there is too much glass for the AC to keep up. Once the sun gets low in he sky, the AC is OK.

I have been stuck once when an old fuel pump failed in an electrically shorted state. Both fuel pumps are on a single fuse, and with this failure, both fuel pumps lost power when the fuse blew.

I have no issues with taking it on a trip and commonly take it over the Sierra’s or to southern California. My biggest concern with taking it places is finding a “safe place” to park.