360 - Heat Exchanger Leak? Gearbox/Coolant

^. Sadly, I think this is becoming too common.

From my very casual observation, we've sold more of them to the 360 cars than F355 (but they share the same exchanger), and most have been 'mid-miles' like in the 30k range from what I recall.

 

Greg

Is this the same issue as what the below product is trying to fix? I remembered reading about it but not sure how good it is?

http://www.dynamtechgroup.com/ferrari-tranny-cooler.php

 

I have replaced quite a few of these units recently, I am interested in seeing a pic of the aftermarket trans cooler set up.

 

I've replaced quite a few of these also. The cause is lack of coolant change, i've cut a couple open and found internal corrosion. I've also tried an external cooler but found no benefit. I secured a thermocouple into the cooler line and discovered that the gear oil takes way to long to come up to tempreture.

 

Casey/Eddie -

I'm curious why they seem to fail on 360's more than F355 (at least from my *very* unscientific sales statistics). It could simply be a coincidence rather than correlation, but I'm nowhere near technical take a guess. Any ideas?

 

Sorry to hear of your woes mate. A coolant change has made it on my list of things to do though...

 

well my own view is that the 360's tend to cover higher mileages than the 355's, and certainly a fair portion of the 360's on my books have got either patchy service history or show signs of poor previous maintenance. 355's tend to be used a little less and so don't surcumb to the breakdown of the coolant's anti-corrosion properties. Well, that's my theory anyway...!
Ferraridublin-most likely the cooler...simple to check, just pull off the undertray and drain the gearbox, it will be full of coolant if the cooler has failed. If so,you need to give your cooling system a flush, but also pull your rear bumper off....when you drain the gearbox pull the little mesh filter out of the side of the 'box and give it a thorough clean. Replenish the oil then change it again after 50 miles, then again after 100. Same with the coolant, drain it off after a hundred miles or so and change it again. You will find your diff will start to make some strange noises for a while as the plates will have got gummed up with the coolant that's been induced, probably most noticeable when in reverse while applying steering lock....this usually dissapears after a hundred miles or so. Well noticed, by the way!

 

What's the best way to flush the cooling system Eddie?

Any recommendations on anti-freeze?

 

When you do a belt service on a 355 you have to remove the engine, and in order to do this you have to drain the coolant. Since the engine doesn't get removed on a 360 for a belt replacement, perhaps the coolant is not getting replaced at a normal interval?

 

I've just looked at the 360 service schedule and changing the coolant isn't mentioned!

 

Nothing unscientific about observing the replacement intervals between models.

 

And car guys change coolants every 2 years minimum. Which reminds me, I got to get to it with the 328.

 

It's difficult to really do a thorough coolant change on a 355. A large portion of the coolant is inside the block. The drain plugs on the sides of the block are brass with a relatively small hex socket. They don't come out easy and you're likely to strip out the hex first. I've found that the easiest way to get most of it is during an engine-out. You can easily remove the water pump assembly and reach in and suck quite a bit of it out. If you want to remove the plugs as well, it's probably a little easier then as well.

 

No coolant change recommendation is a problem on all late model Ferraris. You can maintain the car by the maintenance schedule and never change the coolant during the life of the vehicle. We are starting to see the results of this with the 456 and 550s in that forum and it will probably show up in the 575s eventually. Symptoms there are intenal corrosion of the radiator that is nearly impossible to get rid of without really draconian measures. Like Eddie said, the anti-corrosion inhibitors in the anti-freeze give up after a few years and the result can be nearly irreparably corroded pieces and built up deposits.

If the 360 heat exchanger is going, the radiator is seeing the same type of corrosion and will be a problem in the future, as several V12 owners can confirm. The coolant should be changed every 2-3 years at a minimum, and some pros prefer doing it annually. No idea why this important area of maintenance is ignored in Ferrari tech data, especially with components so susceptible to corrosion.

 

On the other hand, if you get 90% of the old coolant out, you have restored at least 90% of the corrosion inhibitors when the new coolant goes back in.

 

I think I'd forget trying to "wash" the system until you find the problem. If it's the gearbox oil you should find coolant in the gearbox. After the engine is shut off the oil pressure would quickly drop to zero (both engine and gearbox) but the hot coolant would still be under pressure for some time. Drain it and look. The coolant will do more damage there than oil in the cooling system.

 

Greg,

I'm sorry that this happened to your car! but...

Thank you for writing about it so we could get answers that will benefit everyone who encounters this. I know as my miles are getting higher and higher this is on the back of my mind. Remember it's just like any other car.. at least parts-wise. I think voicey's flush might not be a bad idea when you get a new exchanger in. If/when it happens to me, depending how badly I might just flush it with regular antifreeze a few times rather than get something potentially corrosive solvent into the block.

You guys think some alcohol might be beneficial for the transmission flush? to absorb the water? Or just boil it off with heating?

Taz, is there any component that you've seen that can serve as a corrosion indicator? For example the aluminum intake into the water pump? Corrosion on that = potential corrosion in the system/fins?

 

Curt- Not really on the V12s. The symptoms on the 456 and 550 tends to be mild overheating at first, which gets worse as hoses and other components also age. The radiator tends to get coated on the inside with deposits that act as insulators rather than radiators, and heat transfer capacity goes way down. We do sometimes see clogging in the small hoses that go to the coolant overflow tank, so that is worth checking.

 

Interesting. Thanks Taz!

 

YHM