Some new interesting photos with 001S on the Targa-Florio Forum (page 773). Seems that the car was modified several times. Today, the original wheels from 001S are on this Fiat Colli (color photo). Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Surely they are just the same type of wheels, not the actual wheels. How would you prove that ... ? Pete
Was wondering the same thing. They are typical CABO 'artillery' wheels. There might be minor variants, but the ones in my garage have no serial numbers or other means of telling one set from another.
I don't think the dark car with #12 is 001S nor Allemano. If you look close, it appears to have a round Alfa badge on the nose! Maybe an obscure coachbuilder such as S.A.I.L or a "special" built by Enrico Plate (both the 1938 MM Plate "special" Alfa 6c2300A Pescaras are missing, and I have never seen a photo of them)..perhaps this is a later Alfa Plate special!) Symbolic (Bill Noon) is restoring a different Alfa Plate 6c2300 with chassis by CABI Cattaneo special, circa 1948 at the moment! A photo of the 1948 Plate Alfa 6c2300 in 1951 is shown below... Image Unavailable, Please Login
(Quote Dr Stu ''I don't think the dark car with #12 is 001S nor Allemano. If you look close, it appears to have a round Alfa badge on the nose!'' Clearly a Ferrari badge in this photo!
But No 12 seems to be 02 C (one of the first two Ferrari cars built in 1947), doesn't it Regards, Michael Hundt
How did you determine the difference in wheelbases? I looked for a bit where the differences are inbetween the axle centres, and it looks to me that the #12 car only appears to be shorter because of the more compact rear body. What is strange is that nothing on either body seems identical to the other.
Refering to my post #27 ,#001 was lost after the crash and the story of the wheels may very well be conjecture. I suppose if the FIAT Colli could be located and there were serial #s on the wheels it might help but without the serial #s, if any, on the original wheels on #001 and or data sheets from the manufacturer this would be hard to verify. Some things are best left in the mystery file. just one man's opinion tongascrew
Why would it be an impossible thought that somebody might have chopped it (shortened body on shortened chassis) to make it more competitive? Saving a 100 kilos or more might have made quite a difference at a time when it was worth it's weight in scrap metal anyway... Best wishes, Kare
It's quite clear to me now: 001S was (possibly) crashed, rebodied as mystery car #12, and is now the entity known as 1C/10S
Not a chance the car with 10S stamped on the frame is Gilco frame built prior to 1950. The "1" stampings were done after the fact in the wrong way / wrong place / wrong font etc... during / time frame of Nowak involvement with the car. Bill
I would still like to see the documentation on which Classiche verified 01C/010I as being the first Ferrari......
I just found a new pic of nr "12" from the circuit of Pergusa... Niklas Image Unavailable, Please Login
I've been away from these boards for some time and just now trying to catch up. I read with great interest this thread on 001S. In light of this, I believe a response to a comment made by Bill Noon is warranted. Bill, what leads you to this assertion (comments above)? How can you be sure that this chassis was NOT built prior to 1950? IMHO, nothing that you have cited in any of your comments would exclude 1C/10S from being possibly one of the earliest of chassis built. In my reading of earlier posts, the frame configuration of 1C/10S alone would exclude it from being manufactured post 1950 as the frame design changed considerably (under-slung rear, chassis tube/size configuration, lack of hand crank and rear swaybar provisions, wheelbase dimension change, the provisions for earlier shock mounts, etc... just to name a few). Regarding the stampings... they are what they are. All we have done is share her markings with the boards in the hope of learning more about the car. If the stampings on her are not authentic... Isn't it peculiar that someone would stamp the chassis with #'s that don't link to any known ferrari chassis? As the pictures that have been posted have shown, the stampings both on the longitudinal framerail as well as on the front crossmember (near the cutaway for the crank and in the same location as Napolis' 002) can be clearly seen on clean unadulterated framerail. It's not as if anyone overstamped 01C or 10S or 1C onto an earlier stamping. If the stamps are NOT authentic as you have suggested (certainly ironic)...shouldn't there be clear evidence of tampering or overstamp? There is NO known link between Stan Nowak and the 1C/10s chassis. The Motto body from 002 that now rests on the chassis is another story. I find it especially curious that some here are so quick to exclude 1C/10S as something historical because they don't know exactly what she is or where she belongs (historically); however, as someone here has mentioned--"her metal doesn't lie". The chassis metal clearly shows vestiges of changes that are consistent with those that would have been made as new technologies evolved (houdaille shock mount changes, rear sway bar mods, etc...). IMHO, the presence of these obvious vestiges would be highly irregular if the chassis were indeed built in the timeframe that has been suggested (1950s). Or perhaps someone might provide a better suggestion/explanation for the presence of these structural vestiges, instead of dismissing the potential import of this chassis without justification. One last point... the cabo sport borrani wheels on 1C/10S are very, very early. The 125 brakes and steering box (M02) are believed earlier than ANY known Ferrari (Napolis' inclusive). The frame configuration, the frame tube size and wheelbase dimension is consistent with chassis built in 1947 and early 1948. The car bears a stamping "1" in the proper location (same as 002) on unadulterated framerail. Historically, this car IS something special. It's sad that some here are so quick to dismiss her import because she doesn't fit into a "known" ferrari schema. For now, my father enjoys the car as she was intended.
Keep up the good fight. This car still may have a place in the Ferrari folklore possibly the same way Biondetti's Ferrari Jaguar does. Probably not assembled at Maranello IC/10S appears to possibly have some real Maranello hardware. My theory is that these parts were somehow resqued from the famous scrapheap and incorporated over time into a car built by someone with considerable talent and knowledge of Italian sports cars of the period. The bent tube central X support is an indication of that. It would be great if the car could be put up on a lift and some detailed pictures of the chassis and suspension taken and posted. How about it. just one man's opinion tongascrew
I'm not dismissing it as Ferrari or in part Ferrari. All I'm saying is that I have not seen anywhere near enough evidence to convince me that it is Ferrari. I explored the Gilco files over 20 years ago, and there was VERY little information on this period. I have no idea what Ferrari might actually have.
Yes, this is 011S with , to my knowledge, its last body. The original was shortened in the back and the spare wheel mounted outside on the back deck. just one man's opinion tongascrew
