0302 found in Venezuela | Page 2 | FerrariChat

0302 found in Venezuela

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by elmotorizado, Dec 16, 2009.

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  1. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    #26 elmotorizado, Dec 28, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2009
    The Maserati was entered by escuderia Madudina and the Ferrari by CDAV (CLUB DEPORTIVO AUTOMOVILISTICO VENEZOLANO) and there was not a driver change, Sergio Gonzalez drove both cars.
    In my records the owner of 2401 and first driver was Augusto Gutierrez, BTW I will meet him next week or the week after and will sure bring something more about that race.
    branko
     
  2. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    #27 elmotorizado, Dec 31, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  3. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    #28 elmotorizado, Jan 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Here is the photo of the serial number of the long lost 0302 TF, hope some of the historians and experts come up with something new.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    #29 Marcel Massini, Jan 7, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2010
    Very clearly a total RESTAMP. NOT the correct dies used, wrong fonts and ciphers, wrong layout. All fake. This is not meant to be discouraging!

    Marcel Massini
     
  5. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    Probably a fake but don't be discouraged. Keep searching !!! just one man's opinion tongascrew
     
  6. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    Not discouraged at all, will keep investigating and if the owner allows will try to take some pictures, even if it takes me an over 1000kms drive, can the experts tell what areas are the important ones for pictures?, most keep in mind that this car has had at least 3 different bodys.
    branko
     
  7. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
    Check the left frame rail (tube) and the front cross member for ANY chassis number(s) stamped. Also the engine number and the internal engine number (on the bellhousing) is of great interest. Plus the Gilco frame numbers stamped on the bushing on the right front. Make sure to make good clear high quality photos, please. Thanks.

    Marcel Massini
     
  8. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    Marcel, remember that there is no trace of the original engine, to my knowledge there were 3 engines installed (at least) after the Ferrari engine, the 300SL the 283 and 350 Chevrolets, could you supply a picture of a similar frame with markings of where to look, would really appreciate it, I have never seen a bare Ferrari Chassis and this one I think has a body.
    Just called to find out and looks like they are still on vacation.
    grazie
    branko
     
  9. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2004
    4,761
    France
    Full Name:
    Cyril TESTE
    Marcel, do you have pics of "0304TF" s/n to compare ??

    Thanks in advance.
     
  10. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
    Owner Project Master

    May 10, 2006
    17,171
    Atlanta
    Full Name:
    John!
    That 200S is staggeringly beautiful. Such curves.
     
  11. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,826
    Yesssss, and #2401 in particular is one of the most important 200S with a very nice race history. And its worth to mention that the Maserati 4-cyl.-engines are much better than from their counterparts from Maranello!

    Ciao!
    Walter
     
  12. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    #37 elmotorizado, Jan 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    The Ferrari Mercedes this time with Fayen at the wheel.
    branko
    PS Can anyone supply a photo of a chassis with markings of where to look for the other serial numbers mentioned by Massini in post 32?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
    This stamping is not trustable at all and IMO that explains why posts #1, 23 and 37 do not show 0302TF but more likely 0534.

    Cheers
     
  14. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    If it is not 0302 it cant be 0534 either, the car shown in posts 1, 23 and 37 is still in Venezuela and 0534 is in Italy.
    branko
     
  15. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
    #40 Tom Roland, Jan 11, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    It is on the flat surface of the front cross member, ahead of the engine.
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  16. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
    Branko,
    I know 0534 is supposed to be in Italy but how does the cars "still in Venezuela" look like ? Do you mean it's the car on post #27 ? And then what about the Dominguez winner at Bogota ?
     
  17. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary

    Mar 2, 2005
    22,739
  18. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    Read post 11 and make your conclusions, I have never related this car with the Dominguez car, we just have to be patient and see what other photos come from the owner or if I make the 1000km trip.
    Yes the car in post #27 is the Ferrari Mercedes (this time with a Chevrolet engine) after a fire and a new body made in Venezuela.
    branko
     
  19. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
    I did read your post #11, Branko, Thank you. I also read Aardy's #10 which rules out rightly your theory. So my question remains: how does the car you say "still in Venezuela" look like ?

    In my opinion there has been such a mess with all these 4c Ferraris in YV, that no present ID can be taken into consideration without further research. And "0534" is no exception.

    What is sure at least is:
    - the Oliver Merc-Ferrari cand the Dominguez car are 2 different cars.
    - the yellow car at El Castaño in 1968 is different from the one visible before behind the 250MM at Cavicchioli's.
     
  20. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    #45 elmotorizado, Jan 12, 2010
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2010
    Are you trying to confuse me or are you confused, I never related the car in Bogota and the Ferrari Mercedes.
    All the pictures I have posted with car # 204 are from the ex Ferrari Mercedes after it caught fire and was rebodied by the actual owner.

    We are not taking about 0534

    In post #5 I say they are 2 different cars and I dont remember mentioning the car behind the 250MM.
    branko
     
  21. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
    Cool Branko,
    1- You say "I never related the car in Bogota and the Ferrari Mercedes" but the first two pics in post #1 of your thread titled "0302 found in Venezuela" show the latter.

    2- You say "We are not taking about 0534" but it's just what we have to to because it's one of 3 cars in that mess: "0302", "0534" and "0562". I leave apart the yellow car at Castano, Another story.

    3- You say "I dont remember mentioning the car behind the 250MM" at Cavicchioli's but I did it because it's just the same car as the red one, pointed tail, that turned out later as "0534".

    So, please answer my question of posts #41 and #44: what is the car which is still in Venezuela today ?

    Thanks
     
  22. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    Because the Ferrari Mercedes is the one bearing that serial today, you are trying to investigate from the begining, which is obscure to everybody I am doing it with what I have which is going back from what I have (or think that I have) to the GP of 57.

    I dont consider 0534 and 0562 because those cars are long gone and restored, wondering why you wanna leave the yellow car out.

    Ok you recognice you did, I dont have an opinion on that car.

    In post 45 I say all the pictures of the car with # 204 are the Ferrari Mercedes that has serial 0302 TF real or fake that is what I have.[/QUOTE]

    Welcome
    branko
     
  23. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    #48 elmotorizado, Jan 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Re cheking post 46 again I get very confused, the picture shows on the left 0534 as last seen and on the right the car behind the 250MM what do you see in common or I am very confused.
    branko
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  24. Tom Roland

    Tom Roland Formula Junior

    Feb 14, 2006
    355
    Branko,
    Yes the 2 back ends in your last post show the same car, the so-called* "0562", in 1966 and in ca. 1959 at Cavicchioli's (L to R).

    That's why I said (#44) "the yellow car at El Castaño in 1968 is different from the one visible before behind the 250MM at Cavicchioli's." Not the same car if you prefer.

    Sorry for the "so-called"*: I do not take into account the s/ns you put forward because "restampings" mean nothing IMO. As an example, the 0302TF you posted is obviously a fake and doesn't reveals the real-original ID of the car. Yes I stick to "investigate from the begining".
     
  25. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    Something is wrong I dont know about the one on the right but the left one is 0534 for sure, dont know where you see similarities and 0543 is a well documented car to my knowledge.
    The yellow car at El Castaño is #24 not 44 and I tend to believe this car is 0562
    You dont have to, I will just wait and see what other numbers the owner comes up with, and if it is not 0302 must be another Ferrari number that is unacounted for, and one thing is sure for me, it is the Ferrari Mercedes.
    branko
     

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