0302 found in Venezuela | Page 4 | FerrariChat

0302 found in Venezuela

Discussion in 'Vintage (thru 365 GTC4)' started by elmotorizado, Dec 16, 2009.

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  1. thecheddar

    thecheddar Formula 3

    Jun 29, 2006
    1,057
    Santa Monica
    Full Name:
    Cheddar, The
  2. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    Do you have more pix of the chassis of 0302. Please post them. Thanks tongascrew
     
  3. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
  4. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    #79 elmotorizado, Mar 11, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
    I think we are in a stall point until we get a picture of serial 0304, it has been asked several times without any response.

    According to Barchetta it also has a 0306# stamped and 0306 has 0304 stamped too, (shall we call them restamps?) hope the historians shed some light to it.

    branko
     
  5. kare

    kare F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Nov 11, 2003
    3,627
    That won't help you a bit. That serial number stamping is a fake.
     
  6. Aardy

    Aardy F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Feb 21, 2004
    4,761
    France
    Full Name:
    Cyril TESTE
    I wonder if the real s/n was not so much erased that the owner restamped it himself "N° 0302-T.F." without understand that it was a terrible mistake...

    The question is : what was the original number BEFORE the restamping ?? 0302T/F or another number ??
     
  7. Santiago Montenegro

    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 14, 2009
    3,781
    Caracas
    It would help me (as a curious bystander) a lot. It seems that there is something strange with the s/n of these cars, i.e. double numbering et al. I would love to see how a genuine one looks like, is located, etc. Totally useless information, of course, but so is most of the info that we share here... for some of us.

    So, out of curiosity...
     
  8. 246tasman

    246tasman Formula 3

    Jun 21, 2007
    1,441
    UK
    Full Name:
    Will Tomkins
    I too think this is a possible scenario and that the remains of the original stamping may be beneath the welded-on tab.

    Can Branko persuade the current owner that nothing would be lost by carefully removing the tab, and much might be gained by seeing what is beneath it?
     
  9. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    Cyril you were to fast, I was about to return home and decided I would think it over before answering to Kare and you quoted it before I deleted it, but it is what I thought on that moment, does he know something I dont?
    The actual owner hasnt touched that car in over 30 years and he said he hasnt touched the numbers.
    And in that time there was no reason to do something like that.

    Santiago nice to see you around.

    Tasman, not an easy task, as I said before, he will need a very good reason to do it.

    I beleive there most be something under the plate

    Saluti
    branko
     
  10. BigTex

    BigTex Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Dec 6, 2002
    79,143
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Bubba
    #85 BigTex, Mar 11, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2010
    There won't be anything "beneath the plate", IMO....the plate is the surface installed for the VIN number stamping.
    I have closely examined one, on a 250LM.

    Maybe that's what Marcels' brief post points out, the welding bead adjacent could also be a "VIN Plate" that was removed...that's how the Factory so easily changed the cars around to fit the shipping descriptions.

    Lot's of threads here show the elongated vertical Factory Stamps....that would bring forward another point, a restamping "in the field" would not have had those dies in hand.

    But the other point is there was never any punctuation...the 'periods' in a frame VIN stamping, that I have seen....Marcel?? They just didn't bother........
     
  11. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    I am asking the same question again, maybe it went unnoticed.
    branko
     
  12. Cris Bertschi

    Cris Bertschi Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    801
    Buenos Aires
    Full Name:
    Cristián Bertschi
    Hi Branko,
    This thread is really interesting, I´ve been following it very closely, also on your forum.
    Two of the three 625TFs went to Argentina.
    s/n 0306TF went back to Europe in the 50s and s/n 0304TF stayed in Argentina.
    I don´t know the whereabouts of Milán´s car, 0304TF though I know some people identify Quintano´s car as 0304TF.

    Muchos saludos!
    Cris.-
     
  13. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    Cris.
    Lets see if I am confused or not, do you mean 0304 stayed in Argentina?
    If so no wonder we cant get the photo of the serial I am looking for.
    Cordial saludo.
    branko
     
  14. Cris Bertschi

    Cris Bertschi Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    801
    Buenos Aires
    Full Name:
    Cristián Bertschi
    Branko,

    Milán's car, then raced by Néstor Salerno stayed was last seen in Argentina.
    I give 0304TF to this car. Whereabouts unknown to me.

    The other 625TF, owned by Roberto Wenceslao Bonomi in Argentina was raced in Argentina and then brought to Italy in the 50s.

    Saludo!
    Cris.-
     
  15. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 15, 2003
    4,133
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Boudewijn Berkhoff
    0304TF is owned by Juan Quintano from Madrid, Spain. It has participated in several historic events such as the 2007 Mille Miglia and being show driven by the late Jean Sage at the 2006 and 2008 Grand Prix Historique of Monaco.
     
  16. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 15, 2003
    4,133
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Boudewijn Berkhoff
    #91 Boudewijn, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  17. Cris Bertschi

    Cris Bertschi Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    801
    Buenos Aires
    Full Name:
    Cristián Bertschi
    Hi Boudewijn,

    There is general consensus about Quintano´s car being 0304TF, but I don´t know why.
    What do you think?
    When I saw the car in Italy I was not able to take a picture of the s/n stamping.

    Regards.
    Cris.-
     
  18. Boudewijn

    Boudewijn F1 Rookie
    Lifetime Rossa

    May 15, 2003
    4,133
    The Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Boudewijn Berkhoff
    Hi Cris,

    No doubt Antoine Prunet has a very thorough knowledge of this car: he owned it in the 90-ies. As he contributes on this site, maybe he would be so kind to telll us more.

    Regards
    Boudewijn
     
  19. GIOTTO

    GIOTTO F1 Rookie
    Consultant

    Dec 30, 2006
    3,598
    FRANCE
    #94 GIOTTO, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  20. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    If Prunet is Tom Roland in FC and owned the car, he could bring a photo with the serial, it is just for comparing.
    branko
     
  21. Cris Bertschi

    Cris Bertschi Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    801
    Buenos Aires
    Full Name:
    Cristián Bertschi
    #96 Cris Bertschi, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Waiting for Tom Roland´s opinion.

    s/n 0304TF was last raced by César Rivero in Paraguay in 1963.
    When Rivero bought the car from Salerno it had two engines. One went into a boat, whereabouts unknown to me.

    The car was stored at Rivero´s garage for some time (picture taken in 1963).
    When I asked him he didn´t remember where it went.

    Regards.
    Cris.-
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  22. Cris Bertschi

    Cris Bertschi Formula Junior

    Mar 3, 2005
    801
    Buenos Aires
    Full Name:
    Cristián Bertschi
    #97 Cris Bertschi, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  23. elmotorizado

    elmotorizado Formula Junior

    Mar 14, 2009
    505
    valencia, venezuela
    Full Name:
    branko
    #98 elmotorizado, Mar 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  24. Bart340

    Bart340 Karting

    Mar 7, 2005
    66
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Bart Rosman
    Hi Cris, I am not at all sure the consensus is general. I inspected the car may 1997 at the Christies auction Geneva for a potential buyer. I advised negative based on a number of observations one of them being that the car bears a correct looking number 0306 TF and a not convincing number 0304 TF on a tag that is welded-on in a non Ferrari manner.
    I have pictures but do not know how to post them.
    Regards, Bart
     
  25. dretceterini

    dretceterini F1 Veteran

    Apr 28, 2004
    7,289
    Etceterini Land
    Full Name:
    Dr.Stuart Schaller
    #100 dretceterini, Mar 14, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2010
    I agree. It looks to me the current S/N is on a welded on small plate, but it might have been there 50 years. It would be very interesting to find out what is beneath it, if anything. It just could be the original plate was removed, and replaced with the current one...but when?
     

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